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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread Part Six! Now's the time to de-lurk and chat with us..

984 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 25/10/2012 12:49

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. Wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
ThatBintAgain · 06/11/2012 19:30

Hello again- I've been off the wagon for a couple of weeks now and am desperately trying to get back on. I'm finding it quite hard at the mo though as I'm feeling a bit ill and exhausted and I wasn't sure if fasting was making it worse?

Anyway, I've decided today I'll go 24hrs with no calories at all, but from 1pm-1pm. Think this will still have the same effect? I thought it might be easier to manage than 600cals over 36hrs?

TalkinPeace2 · 06/11/2012 19:43

MAINTENANCE CALORIES
Please, please, please do not assume that your maintenance calories are 2000 a day
that figure should be removed from circulation.
Look up your TDEE (link in the opening post)

I am 5'5" age 47 and have a serious gym habit : my "maintenance calories" are 1600 a day
so a 500 calorie fast is only 1100 short of needs, not 1500 short : ie a whole bottle of Pinot Grigio different .......

onit did you drink enough water? we forget how much fluid is in our food and dehydration is common on fast days
thatbint drag yourself back on with 6:1 then build back up to 5:2 or 4:3 - find what works gently before shocking your system

Mintyy · 06/11/2012 20:11

I only seem to post on this thread on fast days.

Tomorrow I plan to have a double lamb chop, halloumi cheese, grilled peppers, cous cous, chick peas, garlic, lemon, spinach, wine, and banana flavour toffees, amongst other things. They are all the random things I am craving today.

TalkinPeace2 · 06/11/2012 20:14

mintyy
how are you doing though?
wine - be strong - save it for the weekend

today I had OJ and tea, then a small beef sandwich and a satsuma, then sausage, jacket potato and saurkraut with lashings of mustard
and did my swim and my class - so it should be around 1500 calories

FoodieToo · 06/11/2012 20:49

Lol Minty at your random cravings!!

ThatBintAgain · 06/11/2012 21:41

Cheers Talkin. Do you think the 24hr thing should work? Should do in theory, shouldn't it? I think I read someone doing it that way in one of the Sunday supplements...

TalkinPeace2 · 06/11/2012 21:44

In theory, all permutations work
BUT
I do really think that people have to get past the "lose a few pounds by ..." and settle into "this is my weight now"
(says she gleefully wearing size 8 jeans for the first time in over 20 years !!!!!)

lilacbluebell · 06/11/2012 22:40

just checking in on my "feed" day.

I didn't manage the 16 hours from last night's meal, I had cheerios and toast with the DC before the school run (I never eat before the school run!). Last night was OK, I wasn't hungry, and didn't sleep any worse than I usually do, though I maybe did feel a bit odd first thing (back-to-school stres perhaps)

RE: TDEE, this is the bit I don't understand. Mine is a lot, even on "desk job settings"Blush. Is that what I should be eating on a non-fast day, or less than that? I have not logged todays food, though I have not sat at the table and thought "what can I eat next?", but I have eaten stuff.

Am planning my second fast day tomorrow, but I am helping in school in the morning, and I am worried about how I will cope on just a cup of herbal tea when I get home. I have 50 cal cup-a-soup if needed, and am planning veg and cashew stir fry for my meal (I am planning the cals on MFP, but not "submitting" my food diary at the end of the day so I don't get the starvation warning)

I am trying this mainly for weight loss (any health benefits are a bonus). So would those of you who have been following this WOE a while recommend 5:2 or 4:3 as better for losing weight?

lilacbluebell · 06/11/2012 22:45

xp there talkin
I am in the mindset of "this is my weight now", but rather than being "??lb by ?" (as you mentioned) I would rather it be "this is my weight now and this - 5:2 - is how I am addressing it and improving my health". IYSWIM.

Bordercollielover · 06/11/2012 22:51

Is anyone on here diabetic? I have a diabetic friend who would like to try 5:2 but obviously has concerns about her blood sugar dropping too low if she fasts. She mentioned it to her GP who just trotted out the standard advice which clearly is doing her no good at all.
I have no intention of encouraging her to try this WOE but would like to pass on any useful links or contacts that could help her to find out more and to make an informed decision herself.

TheCyclistist · 06/11/2012 23:02

Skippy As your main motivation for the WOE/WOL is for the possible health benefits of reduced IGF-1 the following link may be interesting:

www.labtestsonline.org.uk/understanding/analytes/igf1/tab/faq

This is a website that offers the test, the interesting thing is the list of symptoms that it gives for low IGF-1 link in quite closely with some of the side effects you've noted in your post namely
Tiredness

Marked changes in lipid levels (your Trig results were down nearly 20% and I think that's the same thing, I could be wrong though)

Reduced exercise tolerance

Another less desirable side effect was decreased bone density, something possibly that some people with existing problems in that area should take into consideration before following this WOL longterm. There are of course other measures one can take to try and counter-act this negative side effect

Good Luck

TheCyclistist · 06/11/2012 23:14

Hi BLC As it has such a marked effect upon Insulin levels I would be very careful following this or anyother WOE without very good medical advice and very regular monitoring.

Good luck to your friend I hope it turns out she can follow this WOE in one form or other, but I'd be very careful to make sure she gets good advice first

lilacbluebell · 06/11/2012 23:18

is there a link to the decreased bone density info? My gran had osteoporosis, and my DM is on long-term meds as she is at risk.

TheCyclistist · 06/11/2012 23:34

Hi Lillacbluebell the only info I know is the above link listing it as a side effect of low IGF-1. Following ADF or 5:2 will in theory reduce IGF-1 levels and the site lists that as a side effect. It doesn't say how the interaction works though and as this is such a new science unfortunately I don't think there'll be much info out there.

One possible course of action could be to buy a set of those scales that measure bone density, they're not overly accurate but could alert you to any worrying trend.

Good luck, I hope this helps Smile

NatashaMousse · 07/11/2012 04:15

May I join this fascinating discussion? I read the BBC article re the Horizon show ages ago and finally watched it late last month. Intrigued by the health benefits, I proceeded to research 5:2, ADF and related topics, and that led me to MN, where I started with the very first post in this thread. I was tempted to pop in earlier on but thought it best to read through all the posts first, which I have just finished doing.

At 43 kg, I'm not looking to lose weight. (And, no, I'm not anorexic. Am small-boned and been at this weight, +/- a few kg, for over half my life - in mid-60s now.) But I'm definitely interested in the health angle, esp reducing cholesterol.

About halfway through reading this thread, I did a 500-cal day last week (497 to be exact) and found it fairly easy except for monstrous hungries in mid-afternoon. There was energy and calm that carried over into the next day. Nice. I was thinking about scheduling my second "fast" when I read the material on women at that paleo site, which gave me second thoughts, so I researched more. Based on nothing in particular except the general knowledge that occasional complete fasting is therapeutic for almost everyone, I decided to try 6:1, with the 1 being an actual fast - no food, just non-cal liquid.

Well, I've done that this week. From late evening on day 1 to morning of day 3, nothing but water and green tea. This was simultaneously difficult and enjoyable. On the negative side hunger was constant from mid-day on and frequently quite annoying. I wasn't dreaming about food but simply wanted a bite of something - half a walnut would have done it - to take the edge off. At the same time there was a sense of calm, energy level was good and I didn't feel weak or lightheaded at any point. To distract myself in the evening I read Joel Furhman's book on fasting for health - he's the doc who wrote Eat To Live (plant-based, low-fat regimen, which I find appealing, being a veggie) and reports some astounding cures of supposedly incurable diseases (incl RA - as I recall there's at least one RA sufferer here) through prolonged fasting. That kept me going until bedtime. When I got up in the morning, I was hungry in a normal way, not ravenous.

Not sure where I'll go from here. I'm persuaded that foodless periods are necessary for healing and repair. The 6:1 (no food on fasting day) plan seems to make sense for me. I'll probably try it again next week and see how it goes. Also want to think about introducing some 16-hour fasts on normal days (maybe do breakfast and late lunch?).

In my latest nosing-around I came across an article (available in full - the details are interesting) reporting results (incl various blood tests) for human subjects during 3 weeks of ADF. Amazingly, it dates back to 2005.

Alternate-day fasting in nonobese subjects: effects on body weight, body composition, and energy metabolism
ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/1/69.full

"Our goal was to determine whether alternate-day fasting is a feasible method of dietary restriction in nonobese humans and whether it improves known biomarkers of longevity. . . . . . Conclusions: Alternate-day fasting was feasible in nonobese subjects, and fat oxidation increased. However, hunger on fasting days did not decrease, perhaps indicating the unlikelihood of continuing this diet for extended periods of time. Adding one small meal on a fasting day may make this approach to dietary restriction more acceptable."

That page offers links to other relevant articles, which I intend to explore later, along with the frightening osteoporosis issue.

If you're still reading, please excuse the length of this post. And please accept my thanks for all the information and inspiration and my congratulations to everyone who's giving this a go, gainers or losers or maintainers. We're all guinea pigs, it seems.

TellMeLater · 07/11/2012 04:54

border I'd direct your diabetic friend to low carbing rather than fasting. It has been shown to have a very positive effect, reducing dependency on medication and sometimes even a reversal of all symptoms. Best to approach it with a sympathetic doctor because blood sugar levels will stabilise more and therefore meds will need to be reduced, this would need to be monitored. Tricky thing is that lots of GPs don't know that much about changing diet to improve health, apart from banging the old "low fat, high carb" drum and there's not many of us who have missed out on that misleading message. Have a look at the dietdoctor.com - he's a Swedish Doctor with no books, promos etc - just the desire to improve health of his obsese and diabetic patients.

Bordercollielover · 07/11/2012 06:50

Thanks cycle and TML, I will pass your info on.

frenchfancy · 07/11/2012 07:07

"I do really think that people have to get past the "lose a few pounds by ..." and settle into "this is my weight now"

I have to disagree with you on this one talkinpeace2 . I will NOT settle into this is my weight now. My weight now is overweight. I have resoved to get myself into normal BMI and stay there, for the rest of my life.

Congratulations on getting into size 8 jeans, but for many of us that is a pipe dream. I didn't wear size 8 when I was 18, despite having a 24" waist, so it is unlikely that will ever happen again.

For many of us the motavation for this diet is weight loss, the health benefits will follow behind, but if we stay overweight we stay unhealthy. I want to settle into my new weight, the one I hope to have reached by 1st March 2013, not the weight I am now.

Oh and talking about maintenance calories - some peoples ARE over 2000, mine is conservatively 2350, probably more. And I DON'T go to the gym.

Rant over :)

TheCyclistist · 07/11/2012 07:26

Hi Border and Tellmelater . I'm not medically qualified at all but the phrase 'swedish doctor' and 'low carb' ring alarm bells. Sweden has had a varient on the High Protein Atkins style diet craze over the last decade, something that has led to a huge rise in Cholesterol levels and risk markers for heart disease.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/dieting-craze-blamed-for-cholesterol-surge-in-sweden-7836468.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2157532/Atkins-diet-causes-heart-disease-risk-linked-surge-cholesterol-levels.html

Diabetees is a risk factor for heart problems in itself so reducing rather than raising risk factors may be best.

...I'm not a doctor but just offering my 'opinion', nothing more.

onit · 07/11/2012 07:28

Thanks,MC - I had 2 cups of black coffee and then a mixture of hot water with lemon or tap water. Today is my second fast day, so I'll try and keep a note of all I drink.woken up hungry, do fingers crossed for. Self control! Hmm

ThatBintAgain · 07/11/2012 07:57

Totally agree with frenchfancy's post. I refuse to accept my current weight.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 07/11/2012 08:09

welcome Natasha - I think the beauty of this WOE is you find what pattern suits you best, sounds like you've found it! Impressed at you doing such a full on fast so early, you'll probably find you'll get used to it very quickly and the hunger won't be so annoying!

applefalls · 07/11/2012 08:27

Well done to all who are sticking at it, such inspiration.

Done two fast days this week and weirdly just left half my porridge because I felt really full. This often happens but I eat it anyway. Felt odd. Clearly have been eating for other reasons than hunger, and will try to eat more consciously and actually listen to my body rather than the theory in my head that clearly causes me to eat too much.

Less over-thinking and more instinct? Anyone else feeling less hungry on eating days?

babbas · 07/11/2012 09:24

French fancy I couldn't agree with you more!!

TellMeLater · 07/11/2012 09:38

cyclist there's plenty of research to suggest skipping your meals and fasting makes you overeat and causes you to become fat, but that is not what we are finding here.Wink
Border There's further info on eating low carb to control Diabetes on the diabetes uk website....I always suggest people do their own research on their diet and make up their own minds about what suits them. My Dad chooses to follow his dietician's advice and eats large amounts of carbohydrates and keeps the drugs companies in profit by consuming about 50 or more tablets a day...he says he's too old to change his diet now. Sad