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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

5:2 Diet Thread: Part Five! Top of the Mornin' to you!

977 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 07/10/2012 17:53

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon a month or two ago, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has just started can be found here. We'll be trying to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We often mention basal metabolic rate (BMR) here. This refers to the amount of energy (calories) a person uses when at rest; so, the basic number of calories a person needs to stay the same weight. This number is often quoted as being 2000 calories for the "average" woman, but of course is different depending on how tall you are, how much you weigh, etc. Here is a calculator which will easily help you to find out what your BMR is.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. Wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 20/10/2012 01:17

I saw this quote on another forum I'm a member of and thought it worth repeating here:

"total loss 6 kg so far. This 2 days fast diet is really easy, compared to anything else I have tried in the past. The best thing is that my blood pressure is down, as is my blood sugar. Soon I will have to adjust my medication. I hope my cholesterol is down too, will have it checked next month. These side benefits were the main reason why I went on this diet, so I am happy that the claims are true. The best thing is that I eat normally on the 5 days and still keep the weight off."

Looking good, folks! Smile

I went out to dinner tonight, had a starter, main meal and pud - and now I feel stuffed. Wishing I had a fast day tomorrow, but I've agreed with my wife I'll only fast one day a week - she thinks I don't need to lose any more weight.

Piebaldrider · 20/10/2012 07:57

Well there must have been something in the air yesterday judging by what happened to me and a little tension round here. My day started well but i was more hungry than normal and as the morning went on i found i was struggling to get the right words out when talking and having to check myself all the time at work as i was getting a bit out of it. I tried drinking more and had a cupa soup and that helped but by the time i had done my horse last night i just knew i was going to have to eat and so i did. I was just so hungry and i ate more than i have done in any meal in weeks. Saying that it wasn't a massive meal just a large baked potato with a generous portion of Chili some red wine and then a late night craving for chocolate. This craving is getting to be a regular thing and its not normal for me so i must be lacking something in my diet and i need to find it quickly . I'm going to be busy over the weekend and I'm not going to think about what i want to eat i shall just go with it and then try and start my 4.3 again next week. It does seem more and more like long term 4.3 isn't going to be right for me and i have pretty much made up my mind to go for 5.2 one week and then 4.3 the next and see if that helps. The beauty of this woe is that it is just that a woe and you can pick it up and put it down as often as you like its very flexible . I still have quite a way to go to be happy with my shape so i suspect i will be playing around with this and changing and reviewing how i do this until i find the most comfortable but successful way for me to continue with it as a life style.

cathyandclaire · 20/10/2012 08:46

First fast survived... Came in bang on 500 Grin
I didn't find it bad at all- but that could be new girl enthusiasm
. I think my problem could be eating normally, not sure I know what normal is anymore.
Good news is I don't feel hungry or bingey at all.

mollysfolly · 20/10/2012 09:03

Weigh day today - up half a pound over the week Sad Never mind I feel really well and it's a beautiful day

rachelblythe · 20/10/2012 09:06

Oops, that's because I had about 3 pages to catch up on...MikeO you looked great in that picture, lol

catsrus · 20/10/2012 09:57

Yes - something in the air certainly - I was all set for a good fast day, nothing to eat until I got home around 4pm - then a nice large bowl of spicy veg soup. Planned to eat the rest later - then dd came home unexpectedly, grabbed herself a bowl of the soup and presented me with some gorgeous artisan bread she'd been given. Well then there wasn't much soup left and the bread looked gorgeous, so I had two big hunks of it with the remaining soup and nibbled on a few nuts as she'd got the jar out of the cupboard Blush and then had a large sloe gin as it really felt like winter. So an intermittent day not a fast day after all. The scales didn't show any ill effects .

I'm finding the not eating breakfast and lunch thing so easy that I'm wondering whether that will be my own long term way of maintaining weight? Now that I know it's not "bad" to "skip meals" but is actually beneficial. I do graze in the evening, but if it's healthy grazing after a day of fasting, and I make sure one day is below 500 cals then that might be the best WOE For me long term. Not quite at the maintenance phase yet though! Need to get the waistline below danger level!

Needing to do a food shop today - stock up on more veggies and tinned tomatoes!

happygilmore · 20/10/2012 10:47

I've been meaning to sit down and join this thread for ages, but just not had chance.

I've been doing 5:2 since watching the Horizon programme with my DH. My main reasons for doing it have been for the health benefits, not to lose weight, particularly to lower IGF1. I think I'm one of the few (if any?) people on this thread who've had their levels tested, it's just a shame I can't get a follow up!

I had my IGF1 tested earlier this year, a couple of times, and it was 20% over the normal range (i.e. a lot higher than Michael Mosley's, his was at the high end of normal). I was investigated for a syndrome associated with that, but don't have it, it seems my levels are just high. Google and the horizon programme tells me that this is associated with an increased cancer risk, which is a bit depressing as my mother died at a young age (40s) from cancer, and my brother also had cancer at a young age.

I'm in my early 30s, and I think average weight for my height. I've never in my life been on a diet (apart from a couple of weeks before my wedding because my dress was too small!) and always just eat what I want. I'm not stick thin by any means, but a 10/12 dress size. So calorie counting has been quite odd for me! So far, I think DH has lost about 3/4 stone, I think I've lost weight as my clothes are looser but we don't have scales at home so no idea how much (DH has scales at work). On non fast days I eat completely what I want, and I definitely think I've been eating a little more than normal (and I've always had a big appetite).

I've had other health problems, including an adrenal tumour (non cancerous) which has left me with slightly increased BP. My BP seems to have decreased since doing this diet, which leaves me wondering what to do about my medication. I'd like to stop taking it, but unfortunately seem to get other symptoms when I do. I'd be so interested to see if my IGF1 has lowered but unfortunately I'm not due to have it tested again.

I was interested to read the link posted earlier about the aim of a 24 hour fast, I think I need to work towards that. After experimenting a bit, it works best for me (as others have said) to save my calories for as long as possible on a fast day. Currently I'm having about 100 calories at lunch time and the rest at tea. DH has started having all of his at tea and is finding that much easier. That's my aim too!

Sorry for the epic post!

Blondie276 · 20/10/2012 10:49

Hello there all!
Hope everyone is well and feeling good!
Well- first weigh in today since 22 sept and I've lost........ 0.4 of a pound. Not sure what the hell is going on to be honest as do feel like I've lost weight in trousers etc but must say very disappointed in the complete lack of scales evidence!!
Anyone got any advise/ tips?! Please please help!

Aboutlastnight · 20/10/2012 10:52

Have gained two pounds but this was expected.

Had late backshift til 1am onMonday, couldn't sleep til 3am, got up Tuesday, sat bloody horrid three hour exam then back to work to work til 1am.

No fasting, just eating of crisps and choc to see me through horrid few days.

Fasted yesterday and back in the routine on Monday.

Nice thing about thus WOE is blips like that fon't matter because you will be doing this for the rest of your life. I want to lose another 8 pounds before Christmas.

Aftereightsaremine · 20/10/2012 11:30

Well I fasted Wednesday as usual and in Thursday was having barrage of tests (incl cholesterol & will report back in 2 weeks) so didn't have anything to eat until 2pm. I had about 1200 cal on Thursday. By Friday morning (normally a fast day) I had the migraine from hell, and decided to eat about 900 calories instead. I still feel a little rough today but its shown me that I couldn't cope with 2 fasting days in a row! Wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar.

ManOnBoard · 20/10/2012 11:49

Despite two strict fasts this week I have gained 3lbs and am not the least bit surprised as I have been clearing the freezer of pizzas, pies, ice cream etc and I am old school and can not just bin it, but I am now even more convinced this WOE for weight loss is based on calorie restriction. The one positive aspect of this week is that I did not enjoy the food as much as I would have previously and will not be buying like for like replacements, As far as xmas is concerned the thought of mountains of light brown food has little appeal and I will be eating something reasonably healthy before going to any buffets.

Just read the Berardi link which claimed the author lost 12lbs in 8weeks despite having a binge day on a Saturday and fasting only on a Sunday which seems remarkable. The article also (as has already been highlighted) contained some dubious maths, stated that he had tried 6 (six) different fasts in only six months, seemed to want to promote BCAA taking (causing expensive urine) and 100 press ups before each meal - good luck with that everyone.

Not particularly bothered about the 3lbs but may do 4:3 this week to get back on course. To misqoute Mr Micawber "Calories burned 2000, calories consumed 1950 result weight loss. Calories burned 2000, calories consumed 2050 result weight gain"

mollysfolly · 20/10/2012 12:15

I hope I don't sound too loopy but I think atmospheric pressure affects scales weight. At the moment the pressure's high in the UK and I've put on according to the scales, but clothes feel looser. There are quite a few weight gains reported this weekend - could this be part of the reason?

ManOnBoard · 20/10/2012 12:55

MollysF Loopy - especially as you failed to consider it could be atmospherics affecting the elastic in your waistband

GreenEggsAndNichts · 20/10/2012 13:56

happygilmore what a great first post! I know several of us are interested in the health benefits of this WOE. I know you say you're not due to have your IGF1 tested again, but do you think you would be able to get a referral for it, based on your family history of early cancer?

We had someone in a previous thread post who had (I believe) done lab work on some trials regarding IGN1. I don't remember the specific comments but she sounded very positive about the effects of the WOE on it.

(also, love your name!)

blondie I have no specific suggestions. Are you doing 5:2? Do you have an idea of the calories you're eating on non-fast days? Are you staying under 500 calories (including counting everything- milk in coffee, condiments etc) on fast days?

cats back on the wagon, then. Grin Nice bread is tough to be near.

Fast day today. I took Trills suggestion and picked up some of the Gorgeous Azteca flavour soup at Sainsburys this week. I added a small amount of frozen corn to it- it was lovely. The flavours are authentic as well (I lived in TX a while and one of my favourites is chicken tortilla soup, which this is similar to), except that they have thankfully kept the coriander/ cilantro to a minimum. Will def get it again. I ate half the other day and will finish it today for dinner.

Cup of tea for now.

OP posts:
MikeOxardForHalloween · 20/10/2012 13:56

Thank you Rachel (and the others who said I looked nice in the pic). I should print it and stick it the fridge as slimspiration, haha! Actually I'm not really a snacker anymore, which is fab as I used to be a massive fridge botherer before starting this. I must be saving on my electric bills as I'm not constantly standing in front of an open fridge! Feed day for me and I have just enjoyed a fab ceasar salad chicken wrap with warm chicken. Only about 250 cals I think, so I can even eat that on a fast day. Could be the beginning of the end of ready meals for me (I wouldn't put any money on it just yet though!) :D

catsrus · 20/10/2012 14:15

hi HappyG - welcome to the thread! I hope this WOE really helps sort your health issues out!

Blondie I would say just stick with it and don't panic. Make sure you are not either over or under eating on your non fast days - I stalled for almost 4 weeks, but am on the downward path again. Remember you will be getting health benefits even when not (apparently) losing weight. I found my body shape had shifted even when the weight seemed to be stuck!

catsrus · 20/10/2012 14:31

yes greeneggs back on the wagon - tomorrow Grin. I really can't do the 2 fast days in a row - even if one of them is a dud - I think its the psychological factors TBH. I just need to "not worry" or think about it at least every other day Smile.

Having said that I didn't have breakfast (not hungry) had a bit of lovely Halva, guilt free, at a friend's house, came home for lunch and had one of those "what on earth is in the fridge?" meals Grin chose jacket potato, 1/3 tub of cottage cheese and some lovely grated raw beetroot with olive oil dressing [bliss].

at some point today i really do need to do that shop and stock up on more veg!

Blondie276 · 20/10/2012 15:11

Thanks green eggs and carsrus- needed a bit of a motivational talk!
I'm doing 4:3!, and have been since I started. I track everything on MFP and so have been sticking to 1800cals on eatin days and 500 on fast days with a 16 gap as I just eat dinner.
My BMI is currently 24 so I know that it may take longer to shift a bit.
Since I started I have also started 30mins of exercise a day so I'm not sure if the lack of evidence on the scales is where I've been building muscle as clothes do feel loser- what do you all think?
Thanks for the support- much appriciated now your all experts! Smile

Breadandwine · 20/10/2012 15:17

Hi GreenEggs and Happygilmore

This is the post concerned - I transferred it over on the Tips and Links thread (always a good place to check! Wink):

[From Herrena Fri 07-Sep-12 17:31:16]

Hello all

I think someone asked a question on the previous thread about IGF1... by a curious coincidence I used to work on the receptor for that hormone!

The receptor for IGF1 is massively overproduced in many cancers, with the result that the cancer cells are very responsive to the hormone, thus growing faster than normal cells. This links in with the IGF1-deficient people featured in the Horizon documentary; they don't produce the hormone and so don't grow large, but they also don't develop full-blown cancer. I think that's because even if they did develop cancerous cells, they wouldn't get the chance to grow fast because there's no hormone about.

In the documentary there was some mention of the fact that decreased protein intake led to decreased production of IGF1, thereby driving the body into 'fix-it' mode rather than 'growth' mode (these aren't official terms, I'm paraphrasing). So logically those people who are doing this for health benefits such as increased production of neural cells probably ought to reduce protein intake, or at least not have too much of it for the last meal of the day.

Confusingly, there are also studies showing that low-carbing long-term will also extend your life-span significantly (worms lived twice as long). Maybe it activates the same sort of 'fix-it' mode as ADF, who knows."

happygilmore · 20/10/2012 15:37

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes I definitely saw the advice (and have read online) about reducing protein intake, I think mine is probably a bit high (I eat too much cheese Blush so that is my next thing to work on.

Unfortunately I can't get my IGF1 re-tested, I had the original test because of endocrine problems as although it's produced by the liver (I think) that is in response to your pituitary gland, but they seem to be resolved now.

It's not part of the usual blood tests at your drs, and would need to ve done at hospital, but can't get a referral just because of my family history of cancer I don't think, because it's not multiple instances of clearly inherited cancer. I can understand why I guess, the age old money!

It's a pity though, I've had it checked three times this year and if only I'd been doing this then!

Bordercollielover · 20/10/2012 20:38

Re the IGF1 blood test thing. I wonder if there are enough of us for it to be of interest to a scientist to check all our blood levels as research ( and therefore free for us!) ? Although we have no baseline measurements, our results might be interesting compared to a similar group who are not fasting.
Anyone have a suitable contact they could ask? I would love to get mine checked.

happygilmore · 20/10/2012 20:46

I think you'd really need baseline measurements as the reference range for IGF1 is fairly large. Also it varies for age and gender (although you could match against controls I guess).

Endocrinologists would generally test IGF1 but they would be looking for pituitary problems (very specific e.g. a small tumour producing IGF1). That's why I guess it's not generally tested (as it's only a long term possible risk for cancer) as it's only usually very excessive or low in certain quite specific circumstances.

BUT I think there are loads of us doing this on here and there must be something we could do to be of interest to some researchers out there.

Not much help sorry!

GreenEggsAndNichts · 20/10/2012 20:53

I wonder that as well. Perhaps we wouldn't be useful since a lot of us have already been doing it a while? (Honest question!)

OP posts:
happygilmore · 20/10/2012 21:25

I don't think we would be useful for a proper randomised controlled study because we're already doing it. But that's not to say it might not be useful in some other way e.g. informing what to look at next, as the area of research seems quite new.

TalkinPeace2 · 20/10/2012 21:38

happygilmore
we are a FAR more statistically valid data set than more than 99% of those on which drug licencing decisions are based

  • we are not paid
  • we are not all 20 year old male undergrads
  • we have no vested interest