Would you wait for “right time” or risk no sibling?

[Fifii]

TW: infertility, endometriosis

I know ultimately that this is my decision, but I don’t know anyone in real life with endometriosis or anyone who struggled with infertility, so I need some opinions!

I struggled with infertility for years and it was a very dark time in my life. I had stage 3 endometriosis- ovaries stuck to uterus, uterus tilted backwards, deep infiltrating endo in pelvis and ligaments, spots on my bladder, etc. I had very painful and horrible symptoms with it too.

I am SO lucky that after full excision surgery in March 2024 I quickly fell pregnant, and in now have a gorgeous little one who is the absolute light of my life.

i would love to give them a sibling one day. But my child still doesn’t sleep well at all- wakes every 2/3 hours (still breastfeeding), I’m anaemic and exhausted, and I definitely struggle most days just to get to bedtime. I worry that I wouldn’t cope with two.

but I’m more worried that waiting for the “right time” (ideally a 3 year age gap for me) will mean i don’t get one at all. I definitely have some PTSD from infertility and surgery.

my periods came back at 7 months pp and they’re awful. Im worried the endo will come back and I’ll either need major surgery again OR my chances will be gone forever.

would you wait for the right time? Would you not risk waiting?

Sending hugs <3

I was in a not too dissimilar place - endo, got pregnant after surgery/IUI. Total time from Trying to first pregnancy: 3 years.

We assumed that the second would also need science to be conceived, so started Trying again as soon as Baby was a year old. They were more or less sleeping and I was done breastfeeding. Got pregnant naturally in two months, which still astounds me.

Here's some prescriptive advice which you can ignore!

• Look up "rusty gate syndrome" (once you force a rusty gate open once (get pregnant) its easier to do a second time. It's hardly a guarantee, but your fertility might be better now than it was before).
• Your baby is about one? Gently sleep train them (you can do it very gently, it doesn't have to be horrible!) and only once they're more is less sleeping, see if you can Start Trying.

There's no such thing as an ideal age gap, so let that go!

@MrsClausMaybe thank you for your reply, and sorry to hear you experienced similar. I’m so glad you have your babies though, that’s already reassuring to hear!

I hadn’t heard of that before but that’s interesting. I do occasionally read about how pregnancy can sort of “reset” endo - other times I read that it’s nonsense. I wish there was a way of knowing for certain. I’m 33 next month so I feel the “ticking clock” anyway, let alone with the prospect of endo/infertility looming over me.

Yes, our baby is 13m now! I do think if he was sleeping better my mindset would be so different. We regularly end up co-sleeping and I cannot imagine doing that whilst heavily pregnant or with a newborn. i feel so torn on whether to start trying at the end of summer (hoping his sleep has improved somewhat by then), or wait another year.

Do you have any recommendations for gentle sleep training? We’ve tried a few techniques and they’ve never worked with our baby. Though I will admit me and my partner are very soft with him 😅 probably a sleep consultant’s worst nightmare.

I don't have experience of endometriosis, but personally I would start TTC now. I think the risk of having infertility struggles and wishing you'd started earlier is greater than the possible outcome that you get pregnant quickly and end up with a 2-year gap.

We had secondary infertility due to a balanced translocation on DH's side. I felt I would prefer a small gap to a too-large gap and I also was very aware that we couldn't realistically choose when to conceive. Our biggest gap between pregnancies was 15 months but BT causes miscarriage too so it took 2 years in total to conceive DS2 (eldest is from a previous relationship).

I just left it completely to chance, we didn't use any contraception after DS2's birth. I was breastfeeding so it's possible that there was some protection from that but I don't know, I didn't track cycles or anything. Can't remember when periods returned - earlyish I think, he was mixed feeding.

Anyway I got pregnant with DS3 almost exactly 3 years later as in they are born 3 years and 2 days apart. I have to admit when I first took a test I wasn't really excited or enthused about the pregnancy. Of course with this history of miscarriage maybe I was trying not to get my hopes up. But DS2 was probably 2y3/4m and I didn't feel broody or ready for another one.

The timing was perfect though and I would absolutely make the same choice again. My excitement for the pregnancy grew over time 8/9 months later, we did feel ready.

I do think if you know you have fertility issues don't aim for a ~6 month window. Aim for a 2-3 year window, or more. Start as early as you can possibly bear it. Unless pregnancy would be such a disaster that you'd seriously consider termination, just start trying and see what happens. But I am aware I am saying this from the perspective that it worked out fine for me. My main thing was that we already had a large gap (10 years) between DS1 & 2 and I didn't want another large gap. I would have been happy with maybe 4 years between them but if it hadn't happened by the time DS2 was 3y6m, we would probably have chosen to go onto long term contraception and stop trying. So this should influence as well - are you happier with a larger gap? Because if so, then there's less of a rush. I know overall fertility declines with time, but if you're 33 now then I don't think that's a major factor yet.

Anyway looking at the idea of a larger window to aim for might bring clarity.

In terms of sleep training I found it was me I needed to train Lyndsey Hookway is good with her making changes in stages model. DS3 was the one I had most success with after I found this idea, so I basically tried to change the location but not the method, and would feed him back to sleep in his own room then put him down asleep. Where the "Mummy training" part came in was that I would get frustrated in the middle of the night and feel it wasn't working so I would bring him back to our bed. Giving myself a time that I was supposed to persevere until (e.g. 1am) and then if he was still waking up after that time I could bring him through helped. I then just moved the time later as he got used to the new limit.

Pregnancy did help my endo! We are different people though. And a 2 year age gap is TOUGH, sleep needs to be in place before chancing that.

You risk crucifixion on this board for mentioning sleep training, but read a couple of books - they all say basically the same thing. Rock solid bedtime routine (bath, book etc), and only when that's in place very controlled crying.

We left baby alone in their room for one minute - went in and soothed. Left for two minutes - soothed. Left for 3, 5, 7, 10, 15 minutes between soothing. (You're right, I DID feel like a monster! I was absolutely on my knees with lack of sleep though). We then properly soothed and relaxed baby to the point of being allllmost asleep and repeated the intervals up to three times in one night before "giving up" and cuddling to sleep.

We only left baby to cry for 15 minutes twice I believe? Partially because I am a big sook, and partially because sleep training WORKS and we never needed to. After baby worked out what was going on (after 2 or 3 days), we would leave them for only 3 minute intervals. So, bedtime routine, cuddle until almost asleep, leave them for 1 minute/soothe, 2 minutes/soothe, 3 minutes/soothe, 3 minutes/soothe, 3 minutes/soothe /repeat until quiet/asleep.

The difference it made to my quality of life was astounding. I would never shut the door on a crying baby and leave them overnight (as my mother in law suggested!!!), but leaving them in a snug cot with a clean nappy and full tummy for three minutes... that's a bit different. They went from being up every three hours, to being up just once per night, to sleeping through. And only after THAT did we start trying for another!

I know you can’t imagine co-sleeping with your toddler while pregnant or with a newborn, but it’s totally doable. I’m 8 months pregnant with our third and both the 5yr old and the 2yr old end up in bed with me sometimes (DH decamps if that’s easier than resettling them in their beds). When the new baby arrives his cot will be sidecarred to our bed, so he’ll have his own safe sleeping space, as I’m fully expecting everyone will pile in some nights. You do what you have to do to get the most sleep, in the way that works best for your family. Whether that’s sleep training or a family bed is totally up to you, but don’t feel you need to “fix” a situation, as it always changes anyway.

In your shoes I’d start trying straight away, as I’d rather have a smaller age gap than not have a second.

I have a 6 year age gap.

Both pregnancy following operation to remove endo.

My reasoning was I had bad HG during pregnancy and then a baby that didn’t sleep. I felt brave again when the first was around 3, a year and a bit later treatment for endo and 9 months after pregnant with my second (& HG again so was glad I had an older child!)

Do I regret them not being closer in age, not really with nursery and now uni fees I’m quite glad that they not closer in age.

Toddler / children's sleep is always going to change, so even if it gets better, it won't necessarily stay that way! I personally don't think giving a sibling is a reason to have another. Do you and your partner want another baby, that's the key question. if you do, I'd try now, but please kick the mindset that your child will miss out if you aren't able to have another baby. They can't miss something they've never had - from a very happy one-and-done mum!

Thank you ladies for your input, I’ve found it more helpful than I can say.

completely agree that sleep and behaviour change. also completely agree that the pain of wishing id tried sooner would likely far outweigh the temporary exhaustion of two young children. I definitely want another baby, not just for a sibling, but to grow our family. I definitely don’t feel “done” in that sense, though I can completely understand why some do.

I also think it would be awful to finally start getting good sleep and then plummet straight back into newborn life 😂 you can only be so tired right? I’m not getting any sleep anyway, so maybe it’s best to get it all out the way now.

I know sleep is more often linked to temperament than anything else. we’ve had a solid routine for our little one since he was 5 months old: age-appropriate wake windows, good balance of stimulation, fresh air every day, bath, milk, book, bed, white noise, dark room, etc etc. all the reccos and still no sleep! We usually persevere in his cot until it becomes clear he wont go back down- typically ~4am. He’s going through a lot of separation anxiety and is teething at the moment, so I wouldn’t consider any kind of sleep training until that has passed (though with illnesses, more teething, development.. is there ever a good time?). I keep hoping his sleep will improve without intervention.

also I think going in with the idea that it could take a while is a good idea. I like to say I’d put less pressure on it, but I think a history of infertility doesn’t really allow for that 😂

I’ll speak to my partner and see. I don’t think he’s ready but he’s also very sympathetic to my struggle with endo - and he knows he wants another at some point.

It’s better getting the lack of sleep out of the way all in one go than getting used to having sleep and then having to go back to sleep deprivation all over again!!

No I wouldn’t wait in your situation. Remember it’s 9 months before ur baby arrives too so your little one will be almost a year older if u got pregnant right now.

It will push you to get things done for your youngest like weaning them from breastfeeding (if that’s what u want) may help u get more sleep. My daughter was 2 1/2 when my second was born. This massively motivated me to get her off her dummy way before baby arrived and out of nappies. I really didn’t want to be changing 2 sets of nappies everyday!

When you have a wider window as well then you can't (and don't) put life on hold for TTC. When I did conceive DS3 I had just started a new job that I was hoping would be a whole career change and we were settling DS2 into nursery. It wasn't going very well actually due to going in and out of covid lockdowns at the time. Due to being pregnant and there not being a covid vaccine yet my doctor strongly advised me not to work and to shelter at home and the whole thing was a bit messy and the career change didn't work out. But it didn't matter because DS3 was worth it He is 4.5 now and I still haven't worked it all out but we will get there.