Can someone explain the ballet process to me?

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

DD2's just started ballet lessons at age 5. I think the teacher told me she wouldn't move up from pre-primary to primary until she's done an exam.

I'm a bit scared of who I think is the principal (well, not scared, but not exactly happy approaching her as she's really snappy!), but will ask DD2's teacher next time these questions.

In the meantime, can someone explain to me the following:

1. At what point is she likely to do her first exam? She's the oldest in her group and they're impressed by how quick she's learning.

2. The paperwork suggests that you have to pay for 6 exam coaching sessions and 1 exam preparation session, all of which must be paid for!!! It's sounding more and more to me like ballet schools are a lovely little money-spinner for the principals! Does this mean that, unless I fork out another £50 or so, DD2's stuck in pre-primary forever?

3. I've heard that ballet schools normally do shows as well, which I would have to fork out for too. Do I need to remortgage the house to finance this hobby?

DD2 is going to be very good at ballet - she has great musicality and moves very easily and beautifully, so, as long as she wants to do ballet, I'm going to find the money to enable it. But I'm getting very disheartened at the hundreds and hundreds of pounds it looks like costing each year

It depends totally on the school as to what happens and you need to choose a school according to what you are looking for.

Some schools place great emphasis on yearly or twice yearly shows. The parents expect lavish costumes in a professional theatre. Costumes have to be paid for as at an average price of £20-£50 per costume there is no way the principal can finance that for each child, she would go bankrups. It costs several hundres pounds to hire theatre/lighting people etc so ticket prices fund that.

Ballet exams are usually taken whenever the principal feels the child is ready. Exam fees vary from board to board but expect around £20-30 for the lower grades. Some schools prepare children for exmas at the same time as shows in which case to acheve both extra sessions are required. That means that some schools choose to do seprate show rehearsals which are completelet independnet of their weekly sylabus classes, these have to be paid for.

Some schools charge a low weekly fee and so extras are put on top, some charge a higher weekly fee and more is included.

I chose a school for my dd where most things were included. The year that they prpared for the show it was all done in class however that meant no-one took any exams that year. The weekly fee is £6 which is higher than most in the area but the only extra session awe had to pay for was 1 esam prepartion session a bit like a mock exam. (They have to perform their exams in groups of 3 or 4 whereas they learn the stuff in the ir class group)plus the netry fee which goes to the exam board.

At dd's chool exams are optional. If they choose not to take them they progress when the teacher feels she is ready. You don't say how old your dd is. The exam boards set minimum ages for the exams, pre-prinary is age 5, Grade 1 is age 7 etc. It is possible for older startes to begin at a higher level but many teachers do like to be sure they have mastered the basic techniques taught at the lower grades so they don't develop bad habits which might be harmful in the future.

I won't worry you with vocational grades at this stage lol. They are for the serious dancer but are costly as they prepare children aged about 12 and above who may be thinking about a career in dance!

Also in terms of exams being a money spinner, they are more likely to be a money loser as the princpila and teahcers have to be available at the school during the exams which can last over 2-3 dyas in the case of karger schools, feed the examiner etc etc. There is a lot of extra admin work involved.

Sorry, you said she is 5, in which case yes I would expect her to be in pre-primary. You can't take primary until you are age 6 and that is the minimum age, most children will be aged about 7.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest the money wasn't necessary - more that a total of 7 extra sessions when exams come round sounds like a lot!

So, she won't take her first exam for a while yet anyway - when she's 6, it sounds like from what you're saying - is that right?

How come she's the oldest by such a long way in her class then (and I know you can't answer that from that particular school!)? Is it because so many people start their children at the earliest age (2.5) and the children get fed up by the time they get to 3.5/4yo (the age of the next child down from my DD2)?

The little toddlers are all very nervous and reluctant to go in, even though it looks like they've been going for ages. Poor things!

Have you looked around for other dance schools teaching ballet?

At the dds school she lets them move up if they are ready and doesn't even insist they do exams, in fact she says until they're able to do grade 1 it's all a bit of a waste of money!

Mine all started ballet in Feb 09, In Sep 09 she moved the 6 & 7 year old up to grade 1 and they will probably do the exam in March '11 if they're ready

Don't say that! I've just ordered her uniform!

I don't mind the exams, really - it's just I didn't understand the process. I kind of like the peace of mind that she's being taught really, really thoroughly, and it's clearly a thriving, busy, successful school of dance (and I have to tell myself that now that I've paid for her uniform, which is very attractive, I have to say!).

shock horror, our school doesn't even insist on proper uniform until they get to grade 1!!! In fact they loaned me stuff - "just hand it back when you're finished"

My DD is doing grade 1 in June, she is 7. She did her primary exam last summer.

Her school does three different sessions of exams a year, June, January and April I think, so all the girls seem to take their exams when they really are ready.
We are expected to pay for one extra class per week for the term leading up to the exam, at a cost of £4 per session, and the exam fee was on top of that (can't remember how much though).

They run a summer school also which DD will be going to, as she did last year, and this consists of a week or two of all day sessions in dance, drama and singing, with a show at the end where they perform about five or six numbers each. They also get professionals in to work with the children, which is nice. It is very intensive but very popular with the girls and we had tears at the end of last years summer school because it was over.

In addition to this there are two shows per year, one in September and a massive panto in January. The costume bills for these shows are astronomical, my DD was in seven numbers in the recent panto and her costume bill came to £250, not including shoes- three pairs of new ballet shoes, jazz sneakers, silver tap shoes, etc, plus tights etc).

The show rehearsals are separate and these are £4 a session regardless of length- sometimes 4-6 hours!). On top of this every family is expected to sell a certain number of tickets to the shows so there is extra pressure there.

It all sounds incredibly mercenary but I can't tell you how much DD loves dancing and gains so much confidence from it. She practises hard for her exams and in this way sees the benefits of working hard towards something (she got a high distinction in her Primary, mainly because she worked so hard).
Being on stage is also so much fun, she has to learn to pick up dances and songs very quickly and as she is dancing with girls of all different ages she looks up to the older girls and it is lovely to see them 'mothering' the younger girls. Dancing has done a great job of building up the confidence and self esteem of a little girl who was quite shy and under-confident.

Some schools run Baby Ballet or Pre-Syllabus for the 2/3 year olds, then they move into Pre-Primary around the age of 4/5. It may be that the older children who have turned 5 have all just taken their exam and moved into the next class.

I would question the suitability of the class if a 5 year old is in with 2 year olds!

Which exam board is it, do you know? If you don't know describe the uniform.

She would probably need a good 6-12 months regardless of ability to learn to set excersises/for the exams as they have to be memorised.

Captain - I certainly don't think it's not worth the money. DD2 is talented - she's been singing and dancing round the house since she could talk, and has a great, natural sense of musicality. And I think it's good she's started 'older' because she really, really knows she wants to do it IYSWIM. I'll keep on finding the money somehow. DD1 (nearly 7) is doing street dancing.

Island - thank you, you are being really helpful. It's a purple skirted leotard. It says this on their website:

"Classes are held every night of the week and all day Saturday for boys and girls aged from 2 years.

Ballet
Tap
Modern
Jazz Body Conditioning
are offered at all levels for all ages. ISTD examinations for ballet, tap modern and jazz are held on a regular basis along with the opportunity to take the RAD voacational examinations.

All pupils have the opportunity to take part in the bi annual school dance drama productions. For those who pupils who wish to perform more often have the opportunity to take part in dance festivals around the country."

and this:

"All dancers have the opportunity to take examinations in both ISTD and RAD with many gaining very high marks.

Students at the school have every year been successful in gaining places at various vocational school with a view to pursue careers in musical theatre. All of the students have been successful in securing funding for their training.

Pupils have gained places at the Royal Ballet Upper School, Elmhurst, Laine Theatre Arts, Birds College, London Studio Centre, Millenium and Royal Academy of Dance."

My dh teaches at one of the schools/colleges you mention!

Sounds like ISTD then. Dd does RAD but a colleague teaches ISTD.

It does sound like an everything is extra type of school. I guess you have to balance whether you ike a pick and choose environment or an all inclusive.

O was very picky when choosing dd's school being in the business myself I wanted all inclusive. Pupils from dd's school often go on to those colleges too, a friend of hers has a choice betwwen White Lodge (Royal Ballet Lower School) and Elmhurst this year.

Some schools are very defintaly more glitzy and glam than others. At dd's school they say the emphasis is more on the techniqThey ue and training than expensive costumes for shows and they use a smaller 200 seater theatre rather than the local 1500 seater one.

How long are the classes. Dd's classes are 45mins long and the teqcher says that having that length of class means that all the exam work can be covered in class wthout the need for extra sessions.

From what you say though my big concern is a 5 year old in with 2 year olds. I have heard of schools that make children take every single grade regardless of level of ability and it isn;t always necessary. Saying that I do think pre-primary is the right sort of level, just not with 2 year olds.

They're 1/2 hour long at the moment.

I don't know for certain that any of the children are 2, but some seem very young indeed, and I know they take children from 2.5. I guess they could be 3 or 3.5, but they're definitely closer in age to my 3.5yo than my 5yo!

I think I need to ask them if I can ask them some proper questions. Maybe emailing them would be easier - they seem so busy when I take DD, and there are lots of classes going on at once, and people coming and going and older girls looking very graceful in their black leotards and white tights .

What would you advise I make sure I ask them, if I do email them?

In which case 1/2 hour classes would need extra sessions.

Dd's classes (she is now in Grade 2 but the pre-primary classes are still the same) are 45 mins long and cost £6 (just gone up from £5.50 1st increase in 3 years).

The theatre school where I work has just started offering some free pre-primary & primary ballet classes to our existing students to give a student teacher some extra practice,they are ISTD syllabus based and are 45 mins long too.

You need to ask:

Are exams compulsory, do they have a policy of children taking every single grade, even later starters.

What is the age range in your dd's class

Is show work done in class or does that necessiate extra show rehearsals (which in many schools are held on Sundays and at extra cost)

What are the average costume prices at each Grade? Will sewing be involved. What about exam uniform costs, some schools tell their students that brand new shoes and uniform is needed for exams or a differnet type of shoe (satin instead of leather for example) though that is not actually a requirment of the exam board!

Be aware at some point there will be pressure for your dd to start modern and tap too!

dd's school doesn't have a website (bit old fashioned lol) but amongst the parents of students it has two who work at top vocational Dance colleges so it must be OK!

I'd be really grateful if you could cast your eye over this email and tell me if you think there's anything I've missed, or anything I've written that will annoy them!

----

Now that DD has attended three sessions at XXXXX, I wonder if I could ask a few questions about how her dancing is likely to progress throughout her time with you?

How does the progression work through the grades? At what is the average age that children move up to the next grade?

Are exams compulsory in order for her to move up a grade, even at the early grades? I see from the terms and conditions that extra classes are necessary when exams are being taken and just want to budget for the cost of these.

Do you have a policy of children taking every single grade, even later starters?

I notice that DD seems quite a lot older than most of the other children in her class, which I understand as she is new to ballet, but I wondered what the age range is in her class?

How long do you anticipate her being in this class before she moves up?

How do the shows work? Is participation expected from each child? If so, is show work done in class or does that necessiate extra show rehearsals? And what are the costs?

I hope I don't sound like I'm being pushy, or impatient! I just want to be able to plan and budget for the coming years, as DD is very excited about ballet and enjoying it immensely, as we expected she would, so we are foreseeing her sticking with the classes for a very long time.

Is there opportunity to hear how the teachers feel DD is getting on in the future as well?

Many thanks for your time.

Best wishes

Sorry, but I think your letter does come across rather as though you think your daughter is better than all the others that have been going for a while. I think you should just have a casual chat with the teacher.

You say she's just started ballet, well I think your letter suggests you're taking it all a bit seriously! Suppose some kids are 3 and she is 5, well why not, if she's just started? And when will she move up? Does it matter at this point?

And as for planning for the coming years, yes it can get expensive and you might want to think ahead, but also she might get fed up after 6 months and want to stop.

At my kids' ballet school exams are compulsory to move up a grade, and a group will do the exam together. It's not worth the time and trouble of the teachers to arrange exams for just one or two children, even if they're slightly ahead of the rest. (If it's half the class that might be different.) Sometimes kids move straight into higher grades, or skip through quickly, but I'm talking about say 12 year olds who are just starting, not 5 year olds.

My boys started ballet at 6 & 10 years old. They started off in pre primary and did a pre-pre primary exam, then pre primary a few months later. They took the primary exam about a year later and were grade 5 when they gave up (DS1 to go to uni and DS3 because he'd had enough).

They didn't do all the exams along the way. DS1 skipped a couple because he couldn't cope with them, but still went up with the rest of the class. He wasn't the only one to skip.

Exams involved extra lessons for a term, plus a whole new outfit each (white ballet shoes ) which they refused to wear to class, and were allowed not to, being boys and therefore special (little girls being 10 a penny).

The annual show involved a term of Saturday rehearsals (at extra cost) plus a lump sum for costumes.

The set up at your DD's school sounds fairly normal TBH.

Sorry Planet, I disagree. I'm not sure if I have said but I run children's performing arts classes (not ballet but have colleagues who teach ballet) and those are all prefectly reasonable questions.

I asked most of those questions off dd's ballet teacher, allbeit over the phone. it is not unrasonable to ask about extra costs for exams and whether they are compuslory also how shows work as schools do them so differently.

Of course exams can not be arranged for just one or two childre. (You have to have a minimum anout of time anyway for an examiner visit thought some schools do combine but if the OPs teacher objects to these questions then I would have serious concerns about the school.

I teach that age range of children drama and singing and the needs of a 2/3 year old are so toally different to the needs of a 5/6 year old.

The OP knows that Pre-Primary is the most appropraiet level, she is not dispting that, but when a child is clearly the very oldest in a group by quite a margin it is reasonable to question the suitability of that class.

With regards to the letter, I would leave out the biot about late starters, 5 is not a late starter in the scheme of things but it is reasonable to ask if they have to take every Grade. My own dd skipped and Primary and went straight to Grade 1. The reason being that she transferred from another dance school because of distance and we could not make the time of the primary class, it just took her longer to be ready for Grade 1 and she was on that class for 2 years instead of 1 year.

In the first sentence instead of saying how her dancing is likely to progress I would say instead "I wonder if I could ask a few questions about how things work at your school"

Thank you, island, again . I'll make those changes.

Elvis - that post was helpful too.

Planet - thank you also, but you see that you actually know those things. I don't know them, haven't been told them, and a quiet chat when I take her to her lesson isn't really feasible - they are all very busy bustling around and making sure the littlest ones are happy going into the class, wiping tears etc. I don't have time after the class as I have to rush DD1 off to her street dancing class elsewhere. I will have a go at changing the email, though, to make it sound less like I think they don't know what they're doing - I certainly don't think that! I just want to understand the process a bit better.

MrsWobble, sorry if my post was a bit abrupt, it's not the basic content of your letter I had trouble with, just that it came across as a bit "My child is a future star, please rush her through the grades!"

Re shows, the schools do vary quite a bit. At my kids' dancing school they only do a show every two years, which I'm in two minds about. The shows are a lot of work for everyone involved, and expensive, so for a parent once every 2 years is fine. OTOH the kids love it and probably find 2 years a long time between shows.

DOn't worry about it, planet. I changed it and tried to make it seem less pushy.

Hi, just got a reply to my email and thought I'd update.

She said they don't have to do exams, but she thinks that it helps them to prepare for exams later on. She said that Alys is only the eldest by 2 months, so I'm less worried about that. She also said that they think she'll be ready to move to pre-primary (I guess she was in baby-ballet or something initially?) in July - usually 5.5-6.5yo - so that sounds good that they think she'll be ready to move up at the right age!

Shows are biannual and show work is done in class with just two extra rehearsal sessions, and you only have to pay £10 for a hired costume.

There's a parent watching session in June - yay!

So, all in all I'm really pleased and don't feel we've made a bad choice at all - phew!

Thanks for the help - and thank you to Island in particular!

No problem. As an aside it can be fun (if you are so inclined) to volunteer to be a chapeone at shows. You have to register with the council and undergo various checks/interview etc but you really get a feel for what goes on backstage and how much organisaiton it takes and how much the childrne enjoy being in a theatre in a pretty costume!!!!!

(Even if they spill Ribena in their bag on the way to the theatre over their white street dance shirt, pink ballet socks and tutu as one girl did!!)

Any ideas how often children should do exams? My daughter has been doing ballet for a year and has only done one show and NO exams even though she's very good, she 5 and we adore the teacher but feel like there should be more progress

lots of dance schools wouldn't do any exams until 6 in my experience. My girls were 4.5 and 6 when they started dancing. Both took preprimary ballet in the first term of year 2 along with the rest of their classes who were all year 2 or year 3 (the classes tend to span about 18months in age in our dance school).

at 5 it really doesn't make much difference if they have been doing ballet for 3 years or 6 months.

How often they take them and how early they start exams will vary depending on teacher and exam board. some boards start with preprimary, some dance schools have primary as their first exam, some boards even have an exam before preprimary. What board do they do at her dance school?

I am not sure how many shows she could possibly have fitted in if she has only been doing it a year. our dance school only do shows every few years and most of the ones round us seem to do them every 2 years but there is one who do 3 shows a year (but then do all their rehearsals in addition to their normal classes).