Guider in training - terrible meeting. Advice please?

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

Hi - I am doing my LQ and this evening ran a small meeting (6 Guides) on my own.

Most of the Guides are younger (11-13) and know each other from school. My own daughter is one of my Guides. We were all engaged in a craft activity, I was helping some of the slower ones and there was a lot of chatting and laughing.

When it came to clearing up time, some of the girls drifted off and were running about at the back of the hall. I called everyone back to help but the bulk of the tidying was done by one Guide.

Before Taps, I said I was really impressed that everyone had worked so hard on the activity, but not so impressed with their tidying efforts and next time I expected everyone to help.

I was finishing up, waiting for all the Mums, when one of the Mums started speaking to me about the plans for an outing we are doing soon. Whilst I was talking, my own DD was mucking about making loads of noise and I shouted at her to get her attention, then asked her to stop it as I was trying to have a conversation. She and two other girls then carried on, being really noisy. I raised my voice again and made one of the girls stay inside rather than run about outside.

DD was genuinely upset with me when we got in the car to come home. Although she admitted she was mucking about, I apparently shouted at the wrong girl as she had not been the culprit, it was someone else. To make matters worse, I made the innocent girl cry. I'm absolutely mortified to think I made a kid cry.

DH has said there is no way I should shout at the girls, its not school and they are there voluntarily. I've now read some 'teaching tips' on the Internet and feel completely despondent.

How could I have done it better?

And should I do anything more about tonight?

Dear experienced Guiders, come help me!

You are amazing doing Guides, and thank you. Seriously, my friend runs a large guide company (that my DD attends) and she is amazing, and the difference she makes to children's lives and aspirations is tremendous. And all on a voluntary basis.

My advice to you is not to beat yourself up about this, and to know what a gem you are

In general, I'd say your DH is wrong. It might be voluntary, but that doesn't mean the girls can run amok. You are leader in charge and they should respect you when you tell them to shut up and stop causing mayhem! I used to be a Brownie Leader (stopped for a while as I have toddler and one on the way) and we would be very firm with raised voices with the girls if needed. Sometimes you have to.

The only thing I'd say is that I think there is a difference between being very firm with the girls, and bawling uncontrollably. So sort of depends what you mean by shouting - just a firm, no nonsense, raised voice, or did you completely lose control of your emotions?

I can understand how upset you are that you made the girl cry, and can understand why your DD was upset that this happened. Rather than worrying about the incident per se, you may want to chat to the other guiders you work with and/or the district's new leadership person to talk through how you could have handled it better, and perhaps how you could make amends next week (maybe you want to leave it, maybe you want to chat with the girls involved)

Please don't beat yourself up about it! It's all a learning curve, and I don't think you did anything fundamentally wrong. Part of your qual is to learn how to manage the group of girls and difficult situations - this is just one of them

My advice (I was the LQ mentor) is look at what you feel you did badly.

IMO you responded well to the tidying issue. Brownie point there!

Physical signs work better than shouting, put your hand up to remind then to be quiet and if necessary excuse yourself from a conversation and have a quiet word. It's easy to shout at your DD (and acceptable) but not so much at other people's children. Rather than sanction one person a general remark often works better as it makes everyone think and a blanket 'if you can't be trusted to play quietly outside you will all have to come inside in silence' should prevent it from happening in the future.

We all make mistakes, every meeting there's something we could have done differently. The key is to learn from it Onwards and upwards, and the good you are doing more than makes up for frazzled nerves at the end of a meeting.

Maybe at the next meeting have a chat at the beginning about what you expect. I run a Brownie group and four years ago when the previous Brown Owl took over it was mayhem, no structure and the girls didn't respond to requests or instructions at all.
She did an amazing job of teaching them to be more disciplined and putting some behaviour boundaries in place, so that now everyone enjoys themselves without the endless screaming and running about that used to happen. I took over as Brown Owl in September and am very grateful for the work she did. But it takes time.
One thing we do with Brownies is have a signal - I raise my arm in the air when I want everyone to stop what they are doing and pay attention - as soon as they see it they have to stop and raise their own arm in the air until everyone is standing still and silent. It works really well.
Think about what you want to achieve and then spell it out to them - maybe offer an incentive like points for each Patrol. Each of our sixers keeps a notebook and records their Sixes points at each meeting - they get them for turning up in uniform, being kind and helpful, bringing in a note from home about something good they've done, working towards a badge on their own etc - at the end of each half-term the six with the most points wins a silver cup which they each have a turn at taking home.
Another point - I too have a daughter in my unit, as did our previous Brown Owl. It is hard for them to cope with seeing mum tell off their friends - but sometimes it does have to be done. Tell your DD you are trying to create a positive atmosphere for everyone, but you do need to establish your authority. I agree with Frakkingaround - it is best to issue a general warning rather than singling out an individual for special mention though.
And tell your DH he is wrong - sometimes you do have to raise your voice, although in a calm way, not a losing it sort of way. It isn't school, but if the Guides don't respect your authority then it all goes a bit Lord of the Flies and that spoils it for everyone.

As a trainee teacher, one thing I've been taught is that it is much more effective to call a child over and privately tell them off, than to shout at the group. Its even better if you have a word with them without the group there.
If the noise level really is too loud, I would break off temporarily with the adult and make a general comment to the group.
Also personally if you did upset a child, I would apologize privately, explain why you acted the way you did (and if they were in the wrong explain what you want them to do next time).
However the Guide hand up is a powerful signal. At school I do 5,4,3,2,1,0, by 3 or 2 I should be speaking, and by 1,0 I am silent just counting on fingers. Then I speak normally. Where I am working several teachers have already "trained" the kids to respond to this. There are lots more methods, so if they don't already have one train them to a new one (chat to the Guider about this).
DH is wrong you need a way to get attention, if only for safeties sake.

Great advice here already. I also think it can be quite tricky having your own daughter in the unit - mine gets commendations at school for her behaviour and behaves like a demon at Brownies!

The earlier point about Lord of the Flies is especially true, I think. Of course it's not school, but if leaders are having to deal with such awful behaviour that they're not enjoying it then something has to change.

Just remember - if you weren't giving your time and energy, these girls would not get the chance to be Guides.

I was the daughter of a Guider... My only complaint was that I NEVER got picked for games because my mum didn't want ot be seen to favouring me