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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

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Original poster

Violin as first instrument, flute as a second?

29 replies

maggiethecat · 04/02/2010 23:21

DD will soon be invited to apply for intrument training at school starting in Sep. She already does violin but has expressed an interest in the flute. Her permanent top front teeth have come through and others are making appearances.
Would it be ok to go for flute as a second intrument? Not sure if it will work well with violin training which I'm guessing will be her focal area.

OP posts:

Irishchic · 04/02/2010 23:28

If she is that young is that not a bit too much for her to be taking on..

Unless she is gifted at music..?

coldtits · 04/02/2010 23:31

One or the other until she can read music fluently. Flute is easier to make a nice sound with. Violin sounds HIDEOUS until you are quite good, so can be demoralising.

One or the other though. Not both. Once she can read music properly, she will be able to learn a new instrument very easiliy because she won't have to concentrate so hard on what the soulnds are, just on getting them out.

MaggieTaSeFuar · 04/02/2010 23:31

i'd start her on tin whistle !! i play the flute myself and my dd does tin whistle. she's 7. she loves just that for now! maybe i'm not pushing her enough! depends i suppose. if she's already playing the violin, then i'd think htat flute too was hothousing!! but then i'm lazy and my kids are lazy.

gaelicsheep · 04/02/2010 23:35

I'm not too sure about having two instruments that are so different. At some point she's going to have to choose which of those to play in an orchestra - which would almost certainly be violin since that will be her first instrument and there are many more places for fiddle players - and the other would quite likely fall by the wayside at that point.

The piano would be a much more useful and versatile second instrument, and is pretty much essential if she wants to take music further when she's older.

gerontius · 04/02/2010 23:36

Yep, leave flute for now. It'll only dilute the quality of the violin-playing. And woodwind instruments are much easier to take up later than strings, so she can do it in a few years if she still wants to.

brimfull · 04/02/2010 23:39

depends on her age and size for the flute
if she is still small she may need a curved headjoint to start with
my dd started flute in yr 3, well she actually started with the fife first to perfect the embouchure .Terrible instrument imo but flute teacher insisted.

I don't see why she can't start another instrument if she's willing and still enjoying the violin .

Original poster

maggiethecat · 04/02/2010 23:41

I should have said her age - she'll be 7 in August (and by the time yr 3 starts) - her permanents have come through later than many of her peers.
She's been doing violin for 1.5 years so she doesn't subject us to much squeaking and she reads - will do grade 1 in summer.
She has said that she wants to do flute (they start them off at her school on the ocarina - a small wind instument that sounds like a recorder) and I think that she enjoys the sounds she makes and is therefore curious about the flute.
I just wonder if the learning of these 2 instruments in particular (not the learning or 2 instruments in general) would pose any difficulty.
No hothousing Maggie, the lessons would be at school so no schlepping around and if she was happy doing it then I'd be happy.

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SpeedyGonzalez · 04/02/2010 23:44

If she enjoys the violin keep her on it! I gave it up far too young and regretted it (stupidly followed example of another girl in my class). So I encouraged my younger bro to keep it up, by buying him cassettes (in those days) of jazz violin, Nigel Kennedy, etc - just about anything to keep his interest and give him a broader perspective. He's now 26 and plays in his uni orchestra (whilst doing crazily complex PhD - I clearly taught him everything he knows ).

Also, it sounds like the flute interest is coming from her but don't let yourself fall into the trap of forcing her to keep any of it going. If she has a natural affinity for music she will keep it for life and will find ways to express/ develop it in her own time. So please don't feel that you have to cram her brain with all the training NOWNOWNOW. That's not how it works.

Another thought - both are solo instruments. It might give her a broader viewpoint on music if she learns one solo and one 'rhythm' instrument (such as guitar, piano, drums/ percussion, etc). It's just a thought that's popped into my mind and has no academic research to back it up.

gaelicsheep · 04/02/2010 23:45

My particular view is that first and second instruments should be at least vaguely compatible and the playing of one should benefit the other. That's why I don't think violin and flute would be a worthwhile combination. I don't remember any peers who learned a stringed instrument and a woodwind instrument, or if they did they certainly didn't keep them both up for long.

SpeedyGonzalez · 04/02/2010 23:45

Meant to say - I am SO proud of my bro and the way he plays violin now, after 20 years. And he absolutely loves it.

Original poster

maggiethecat · 04/02/2010 23:48

Gaelic, she has shown an interest in her little sisters new ELC keyboard (we don't have a proper piano) - fiddling about on it and working out how to play some of her violin pieces on it. The thing is that she can't do piano at school and we already do violin out of school so I dont want to get into piano lessons out of school atm. But I had kind of worked out that piano would be a sensible choice of another instrument.
It's just that if she has an opportunity to learn another at school I thought that we might make use of it.
Gerontius, I was wondering about the dilution of violin playing....hmmm

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gaelicsheep · 04/02/2010 23:52

What a shame that she can't do piano at school! Sorry for stating the obvious btw, but keyboard skills really are so important in the long run.

FWIW, I don't think it would do any harm, it just wouldn't have any extra benefits IMO. Violin and cello, for example, would be a lot worse combination in terms of one disrupting the other.

SpeedyGonzalez · 04/02/2010 23:54

If she's already working out music on the keyboard she sounds like a natural muso to me. So IMO you're right not to try and enrol her in piano classes if it will make her (and your) life more difficult.

I taught myself to play the piano - never had a lesson until the age of 26, when I chose to learn. My parents just bought a piano when I was around 9 and I leapt for it like a crazed wildcat. Loved it. Adored music and still do. It sounds like it's in your daughter's blood, so your approach sounds great to me - you're letting her lead with her interests, and keeping a balanced check on her level of extra-curricular activity.

Original poster

maggiethecat · 04/02/2010 23:57

Thanks Speedy. I don't even want to mention another second instrument to her as being on offer. This flute business is all bcos she's asked about it and I would be quite happy if she did just violin but I also wouldn't want her to be yearning to do it and deny her the chance for no good reason.
Gaelic, intuitively I thought that the 2 instruments might not work well together and that's why I've asked for your valued opinions

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SpeedyGonzalez · 05/02/2010 00:03

(Am currently hearing Mozart's flute concerto as I type). You sound like you're very level-headed about these things, maggie. Even if you do deny her the chance to do some things now, for very good reasons, that doesn't preclude her from taking them up later in life.

Arty-farty things I have taken up since leaving school:

Tap dance
Jazz dance
Belly dance
Salsa dance
Piano lessons
Singing lessons

Never had a dance or instrument lesson before then (apart from violin/ recorder until age 10). Always wanted to dance, so said 'what the hell' and did it all.

gaelicsheep · 05/02/2010 00:03

I think you should let her try it if she's so keen. She may take to it like a duck to water. Thinking about it some more, it is good to get a chance to try both strings and wind at an early age. I would expect one or the other to take over at some point though, but that's not a bad thing at all.

I always wanted to play the flute as a second instrument (piano was my first) but my junior school only offered violin so that's what I did. In hindsight I don't think I'd have taken to a wind instrument, but it would have been good to get the chance to try. I agree with Speedy that she sounds naturally musical, so do all you can to encourage it.

Original poster

maggiethecat · 05/02/2010 00:04

Realised that we cross-posted. Gaelic talking about violin and cello - sometimes she holds her wee 1/10th violin like a cello and I just let her play her piece in that position for a minute or so until she gets it out of her system. You know the next request I'm anticipating...
I think for now she better fight with little sister over the ELC keyboard!

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toddlerama · 05/02/2010 00:05

I don't think that they don't work together, but they don't particularly help each other. I suppose they both use treble clef, so that's easy enough, but maybe consider something that will teach her bass clef? Personally, I wouldn't encourage any of mine to play the flute because the market is saturated at university level, but that's just me. Violin may sound bad to begin with, but it is beautiful in the end. You sound like a very supportive mum

gaelicsheep · 05/02/2010 00:07

Yep, that was me too. Again I think if I'd had the choice I would have chosen cello over violin. But my violin teacher would've hit the roof at any suggestion of doing both!

Original poster

maggiethecat · 05/02/2010 00:11

Speedy, I love the idea of belly dancing (just the idea tho, as she looks down at the belly)
Gaelic, I might have a word with music teacher. She came home today and said she played solo Ode to Joy on her ocarina in music class (she learned to play that last year on her violin so I know she was keen to do it on ocarina as the piece was in her ocarina book). But I think it might be fair to let her have a go at it and if she doesnt like it at lease she would have determined that herself. Problem is - what if she does like it?

OP posts:

Original poster

maggiethecat · 05/02/2010 00:17

Have a go at the flute, that is. And at LEAST she would have determined that herself. It's late - I better get to be.

Gaelic, I wonder if she's considering every part in the orchestra? (having said that, she's a bit naturally shy and has said recently that she does not want to play in the orchestra in front of everybody

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gaelicsheep · 05/02/2010 00:19

If she does like it, then she will definitely reach a point where she has to choose which to pursue more seriously. As I'm sure you know, you need to be a much higher standard in a wind instrument to get a place in an orchestra than you do on an instrument like the violin. So if flute remains her second instrument I think it's likely she'll drop it at some point. She may even run into the problem of liking flute better but not being good enough to take it further in a serious way. But neither of you will know until she tries.

I'm off to bed now, but good luck and I hope she enjoys herself - that's the main thing. [smie]

gaelicsheep · 05/02/2010 00:21

X posted. Oh in that case, violin will continue to suit her as you can hide behind all the other violinists. I was also very shy with playing in public (hence I gave up my music college place for piano after one year when the pressure got too much!). I could never understand how wind players coped with the pressure of that exposure all the time. She might get over the shyness in time though.

Original poster

maggiethecat · 05/02/2010 00:30

Did not know about standard of flute players - the whole music thing is new to me and so altho I don't have a musical bone in my body I try to do my best to encourage her interest. She seems to be shy on one hand but willingly plays solo piece on ocarina in front of her class on the other hand. The jury's still out...
Thanks for the advice - have a good night.

OP posts:

SpeedyGonzalez · 05/02/2010 00:36

maggie, the one problem with belly dancing was my teacher. She was a brilliant teacher, but I don't think her body had ever had a belly. She was beautifully slender and elegant, and so lovely with it.

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