Learning to play violin -- what to expect?

[Strix]

That's it really. DD (6, year 2) has just started taking violin lessons. I know nothing about it and just wondered what to expect.

When do exams begine?
How many are there?
How long until she will be world famous? (just kidding)

The feedback so far from her teacher is very good. But, obviously it's very early days. I just wonder what level of commitment I have just signed myself up for.

Depends on the teacher and the child. Can't play violin myself but dh is a peripatetic and private music teacher.

If the lessons are private one to one then the first exam for those who wish to take them is now often the Prep Test. A confidence building non examined assessment of skills.

Grade 1 for the average learner I would expect to take approx 2 years from first lesson to exam though could be considerably more or less depending on the child.

If the lessons are in a group progress may be slower.

If the lessons are at school then exams may never be taken. Some music services struggle to get parents to pay for the music and exam fees and the lessons are not long enought to cover all the prepration needed.

Grades go from Grade 1 to Grade 8. Grades 1-3 are classed as Foundation Level, Grades 4-5 Intermediate (GSCE ish level equivalent) and 7-8 Advanced (A Level ish standard.

Thank you!

The lessons are private so I think exams are on the cards. Just didn't have any idea when to expect them.

We also take dance (ballet, modern, tap) where some parents are also not keen to pay for the class and for exams. But, I am of the view that if we are going to do this, might as well do it right. So, I'm happy to do the exams for violin as well -- so long as DD is not overloaded.

Agree with Island

The violin is the hardest instrument to learn. Daily practice essential. DS started at 6, he did grade 1 at 7 and is about to do grade 2. We practice every day, there is so much to take on board at the beginning - it's not for the faint hearted.

Oh no. What have I got myself into?

One thing to note is that unlike dance exams where a syllabus is followed and you need to know what has gone before in instrumental exams you often skip grades.

Eg. I did Grade 1 piano, then Grade 3, then Grades 4-8.

Don't worry about exams yet. Not likely to happen for a couple of years. Some teachers religiously plough through them all, others don't.

But if at all possible do practice every day. Just 5 mins will do. Leave the violin out so you don't have to go through the faff of getting it all out etc, which I find is a big disincentive sometimes!

Be prepared for it to sound grim for quite a long time...Might be worth you learning to tune it for DD as that will make it sound less grim - maybe the teacher could show you.

Really depends on the child. Agree about the skipping grades. I play the viola and did grades 3, 5, 7 then 8. But then I started a lot later.

I initially started the oboe at about age 11, didn't really get on with it tbh. My brother started the violin at more or less the same time and I kept pinching it and having a go with his books. V irritating for him obviously, so my mum suggested the viola which I took to really well. A lot of it depends on getting the right instrument I think.

What to expect?

Screeching!!

(we have one at home and -- owww! And along with dd1 on her accordion - double owww!)

I found the first 6 months quite straight forward. The next six were a grind and then we came out the other end.

In the beginning it is not too difficult, the y have to get used to holding the violin under their chin and straight across (ie not tilting down). Not a particularly natural position at first. They need to get the bow hold right (check thumb placement and how tightly bow is being held). Intially dd just played the strings with the bow (no fingering) and a mixture of arco (drawing across strings with the bow) and pizzicato (plucking the strings with the fingers). She soon started on fingering on the first two strings, seems to vary from teacher to teacher.

Then you get to fingering and finding the right note by ear. By fingering I mean: first position and second position initially. They involve different placement of 2nd finger. So maybe you are playing first finger, space ,2nd and 3rd close together, space, 4th finger. Or you are placing 1st and 2nd close together. If that makes any sense. If you put your hand flat on the table to try it, you will see what I mean by moving 2nd finger from close to 1st over to lie close to 3rd. That's a bit simplistic but to give you an idea. It is not easy for them to place the fingers close together at first and you need to work on that.

Everything else like dynamics (getting louder, quieter, etc) rhythm, melody is not violin-specific.

The big things is can you hear and find the notes? Either you can do this easily or you can't. I can't. Dd can. I can't tell her if she is wrong but the teacher can. She'll say "I think it's a bit higher dd, no that's now too high, can you find it? Yes, that's it". If you don't hear the notes you play and work on getting them, you won't learn the violin. Then you move further towards the body of the violin to do other notes

I think it's ok if your dc is physically able to cope with the manipulations of the fingers, one hand doing one thing (fingering) the other bowing and if they have a good ear or good instruction to acquire one. Lots of dc learn violin at a very early age, starting around 4 with tiny violins so I think 6 is a good age to start on it.

The violin is very versatile and it a nice emotional instrument too, I think it is a good instrument to learn but not as "easy" say as basic piano where you put your finger on a key and the right note comes out IYSWIM. Not that I'm claiming piano or any instrument is truly easy if you want to master it.

Ds has a violin (he got it when he was 2.5) and can make quite a nice sound on it - we've not been pushing as he's tired from starting reception at the moment and we don't want it to be a chore. Might take Katisha's advice and leave it out so that its easier to pick up for a few mins...

I started when I was 10. I took grade 4 when I was 11. But the advantage was I could already read music as I had learnt the piano for 4 yrs by then. However, as flowerey said, some instruments suit some people - and I'm definitely a string player (as dh is too, we're hoping that it runs in the genes and ds will be as well!)

My mother has never complained about any screeching - it just didn't happen. It doesn't happen with ds now at the moment either - getting a fluid movement of the bow without too much pressure is the key to this.

I think that its really important from the beginning to encourage children to actually listen to what they are doing - the violin, even a cheap, factory made one, will resonate more when notes are in tune - and, as soon as you can get children to listen to this and adjust the tuning to get this resonance, tuning becomes much easier.

I wouldn't have a clue how to tune a violin. I have only just learned how many strings they have. And on Christmas morniing, when DD got her violin, I turned the little knob to much and the string went PING. I am pretty sure I am not qualified to be of any assistance.

But, she has had a few lessons and the teacher says she is very capable and learning at a faster than expected rate. SO, I'm hopefully she has I gift I do not possess. The same goes for her dance talents. I wonder if I brought the wrong child home from the hospital?

I am going to leave it to her and the teacher to tune and play the thing. I'll just remind her about practising. But, her schedule is pretty full so I'm not insisting on every day. I have said she needs to do at least two. If this means she goes a tad slower that's okay. She is only 6.

good luck with it, hope she'll get a lot of pleasure out of it.

Am not a teacher so wouldn't like to comment much on practice times but I would be surprised if 2 days practice a week would suffice. You don't think she could manage 5 minutes a day in the morning before school with just 1-2 afternoons where she spends a little longer on it?

From our (limited) experience, I would say daily practice is the key really

Strix that is a really good philosphy.

I am teaching dd the piano but we practice as and when. She is developing a lovely touch but is going slower than her peers as we don't have as regular lessons, plus it is hard to get to the piano due to dh's teraching sometimes! (She too is a dancer and does drama exams so I don't want to overload her)

Yes I appreciate the schedule but 2 days a week sadly is not going to cut it and she will become very frustrated at lack of progress.

She has to become physically used to the thing and that takes time. Picking it up everyday for 5 mins is ideal. Some sort of routine time in the day where the violin is just lying there ready and waiting - after breakfast or something. Literally 5 mins.

Obc losing the odd day is not the end of the world but I really think you have to start with the assumption that it's an everyday things and work towards that.

(I am also a viola player.)

Don't expect a decent noise for about 5yrs!

And I'm allowed to say that because I went through it as a kid.

But I stuck with it and now make some nice noises.

Obc is not an obscure acronym - I meant obv, obviously...d'oh

The viola's fab. You get into orchestras dead easy because not many people play it. Only downside with the viola is that you don't normally get the tune in orchestral works and the repertoire generally isn't great compared to the violin.

However as long as you can read the treble clef, as most musicians can anyway, it means you can play the violin as well. It doesn't often work the other way round.

I have a violin as well and can play more or less whatever I want on that without a single lesson.

Am desperately trying to remember the viola jokes we used to tell at uni!

Flowery - I started as a violinist, but am now a viola player... I have to try hard to make my violin sound like a violin rather than a higher viola!!!!

But, OP - if she's not making a nice noise, ask her teacher what she is doing that makes the nasty noise and how she can correct it. If I could get my 2.5yo to understand how to make a nice noise - and that a nice noise was to be aimed at rather than a screechy noise (which some people have complained about), an older child should be able to understand

Oh - but I am not allowed to play my violin with ds as he complains that he's not as good as me, so I just have to sing along instead!

Ah but Flowery - who needs tunes? Tunes are shallow. What we viola players have are deep inner lives and complicated harmony...

Yes that's true, you are the butt of all the jokes.

I certainly have a deep inner life Katisha...

Tellers of viola jokes are also shallow.

Whereas jokes about drummers are funny.

Katisha - I play in an orchestra where we have intensive rehearsals the weekend before the concert (12hrs)... I come back to work with all the music going round my head, and normally end up singing the viola line - I, of course, have the rest of the orchestra going on in my head, with the tune etc - other people just hear me singing my line and don't have any idea what I'm singing!!!

I am not, at this stage worried about her progress. Today is lesson number 4. She was to have a semi private lesson with a friend. Friend started a few lessons before DD. DD goes to first lesson with friend, and comes home to report she is better than fried. I am think how on Earth did that happen and question nanny about whether this could possibly be true. Nanny confirms DD's claim. At lesson number 3, violin teacher informs nanny and friend's parent that they need to take separate lesson because DD is learning quickly resulting in DD being bored and friend struggling to keep up.

DD's main attraction to the violin ios playing it WITH her friend. So, actually, if we were to slow down so friend could catch up that would be a good thing.

I cannot for the life of me work out how DD managed to leapfrog her. I guess she has a talent -- one she most certainly did not get from me.

Agree with others that it very much depends on the child and committment to practice.

My dd started the violin last May (summer term of Y2) aged 7 and has really been enjoying it a lot. She is playing grade 2 pieces at the moment, but her teacher won't enter her for exams until about grade 4-5 (she feels they waste time and she'd rather get on with teaching).

DD also plays the piano (started age 6) and this probably helps her with the violin (but as I'm not musical nor play any instruments, I'm just guessing )