Dance school concerns

[Mrssagt]

Hello,

my DD is 12 and has been dancing since she was 3, at her current dance school since she was 7. she started off at this school doing ballet and modern and now does every style of dance offered there (well, I thought so until today). Recognising my own bias she stands out in her class.

I’ve been concerned for a while that she (her entire class) are behind compared to her peers who dance elsewhere as well as the stage the class ahead of her are at who are only a year or two older. She is currently in grade 3 for ballet, modern and tap. They plan to do grade 3 ballet exam this year, but they’ve been grade 3 modern for almost 2 years now with no hint that they might do their exam soon. I’ve done a lot of reading and spoken to people who know better than me and the general consensus is that grade exams are not the be all and end all.

This summer she went to the summer intensive at a different studio, she loved it, she did keep up but I think it’s given her a bit of a wake up call that when she auditions for her post 16 dance courses, these are the people she will be competing with, and while she is certainly one of the better dancers at her studio, that’s a pretty small pond really.

This is turning into a very long post so I’ll try to get to the point. DD’s class appear to have been significantly left behind. The class ahead of hers are significantly more advanced and this is the class she should be joining next year, the class immediately behind hers are on the same grades as her class. Their modern teacher has told them they are behind where they should be. The dance school used to offer a lot of opportunities to their students but stopped over Covid and have only really offered enrichment to seniors since then. There seems to be a degree of favouritism in the school, I don’t mean the usual who gets a solo or special part, I actually mean in terms of what opportunities can be accessed. I’ve also noticed a lot of the dancers her age leaving for other dance schools recently. I don’t really know what to do. If DD still wants to go to dance college at 16 - even if it doesn’t happen - I don’t want a lack of opportunity or a lack of support from us as parents to hold her back. The two owners of the studio are not particularly approachable (although I am autistic so I don’t find many people approachable) and I’m just not even sure how one addresses the possibility that they’re not delivering a good enough standard of training without being rude? Do I just move her? She doesn’t want this as she loves her dance friends. I also worry if she would have to join younger classes if she is behind.

In general, I would say it doesn’t terribly matter which grade the class is at if she’s enjoying it and getting what she needs, but if she wants to go to dance college, she is not getting what she needs. But she’s not so far behind that it can’t be fixed.

First thing to consider is where else you could go. Have you looked around already?

She may need to book some private lessons at a new place to bridge the gap between grade 3 and 4 - a new place would be able to assess if she needs to actually take the exam or just move into grade 4, etc. Would that be in your budget? Also worth finding out if the other option schools will do that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with booking trial lessons at other studios, telling them the situation, and not saying a word yet to your current place. You’re allowed to window shop! And then you will have a better idea of where would suit your DD best.

My daughter went to dance college.

Is she only just 12 (year 7) or turning 13 this year? Not having taken Grade 3 seems low for a serious dancer.

I would expect a 12/13 year old to be working on Inter Foundation alongside Grades 4/5, particularly in ballet and jazz/modern. It is not about the exam as such but having the knowledge of the steps required at that grade.

When my daughter auditioned for dance college the standard expected was around Intermediate/Adv 1

my Daughter is 12 (almost 13) and I could have written this post but she’s doing her grade 4 exam next month. They delayed it 6 months as some of them weren’t ready which made me quite annoyed as she definitely was as she puts in the work.

She is aiming for a dance college too but I’m not sure she’ll be at the level she needs - giving it another year and then will see. She’s signed up for loads more classes this year so hopefully that will give her a rounder experience as well but I’m guessing I might need to do some tough conversations at the end of the year. She is insistent that she doesn’t want to move schools but I think she needs something more intense if she wants to continue after 16

anyway - no real answer but I’d be concerned too

I think I would be looking for a different school.

It sounds like either the teachers are not pushing the dancers enough if they are being “left behind” other classes, or your daughters cohort is not good enough as a whole to move on to more challenging things. Either way, it sounds like a school that would challenge her more would be good if she has aspirations to go to dance college.

Just move her.

Not all dance schools aspire to push dancers as hard as possible - many cater for kids who are doing dance as a hobby and they care more about enjoyment than rushing through the grades etc.

If you feel that the school isn't suitable for your dc's needs, then by all means, move her to a school which is more in line with what you're looking for. You don't have to criticise the approach of the current dance school, which may be operating with a different set of values and priorities.

What sort of training is it?
What sort of dancing does she want to do eventually?

Those two questions are very important. Lots of extremely prestigious dance schools for 16+ full time training do not want heavily pushed young adults. They can look for a strong basic technique coupled with a risk averse training to date that’s meant no significant injuries. They know they can do the rest at aged 16.

Don't write off being “held back” if the training is otherwise sound and it’s with an established exam board.

My own daughter is training to be a professional ballerina. She got the place aged 16 above hundreds of dancers who had achieved higher grades.

My DD went to full time dance school and runs her own school now.
Whilst I completely agree with the PP who stated that getting good quality basic technique is better than rushing through the grades, the reality is that for post 16 training schools are generally looking for students who are at Intermediate level at least. Not having done the actual exam isn't an issue (they don't even do exams in some countries) but audition classes will generally be set at about that level. There will always be the occasional successful candidate who for some reason or another hasn't reached that level but in whom the panel saw particular raw talent, but they are the exception rather than the rule. It's a highly competitive field and your DD will be competing for a place against dancers who have been at full time schools since they were 11, highly trained girls from overseas as well as lots and lots of talented pupils from dance schools all over the country. If that is what she definitely wants to do then to maximise her chances of success I'd say she probably needs to accelerate her training somewhat so I would probably look elsewhere. I know it's hard when you've been at a particular school for a long time and you have built friendships there, but if your DD is serious about pursuing a career in the dance world she needs to put her training needs first.

Try out other schools in the area and see if there is one particular she prefers. The try out lesson used to be free. Another school may move her straight up a grade without taking an exam. If you can afford it and she doesn't want to leave her current school DD actually attended more than 1 school at one point - just had to remember that the arms were different and start on a different leg in some exercises etc

Audition for the Associate courses - good practice for when she auditions later on and if she is lucky enough to get in will soon bring her up

See if you can get a place on another summer school, some schools used to do courses during the Easter holidays as well

https://www.balletcoforum.com/forum/9-doing-dance/ - this forum is absolutely invaluable I learnt so much from here

Good luck, it's a wild ride.

Another one saying exams are not everything, but that good basic technique is key. DD has only ever done tap exams, no ballet or contemporary or jazz. She does have excellent basic technique. When she started her musical theatre training she was intimidated by all those people with grade and intermediate foundation etc, but noticed she actually got a lot fewer corrections. Others had been taught to pass the exams whereas she had been taught to be a dancer.

Sounds like she isn’t as good as others her age but because she is better than others at a dance school you wrongly thought she was good but really just mediocre which is fine.

What a nasty post

Thank you for all the very helpful responses. I think I know for myself that really she either needs to move or take other classes alongside her current school.

To answer some questions she’s in year 8.
She does ballet, modern, tap, contemporary, acro, street and a musical theatre class.
When I say dance college, she has her sights set on a local sixth form with a well established Btec dance program.

skybluepinky - maybe you’re right, although I’m more inclined to listen to the people in my real life who have actually seen her dance. It doesn’t matter to me if she becomes a dancer or not, beyond the fact it’s what she wants. As I said in my original post if she fails to get into dance college I don’t want it to be because she wasn’t given every opportunity. My concern isn’t about her talent or lack thereof, rather whether she is getting the best possible dance training to make the most of her ability.

Or (far more likely in my opinion) the OP's dd is behind because the dance school is crap and the teaching inadequate. Not all dance teachers are able to teach good technique to the level required for vocational training, and very few indeed are capable of getting their students into the top tier vocational schools.

At 12, a promising young dancer aiming for a career in ballet should really already be well into grade 4 (ISTD) or grade 5 (RAD) ballet, starting the vocational grades and if not already on pointe it should be imminent. They should be doing at least 3 ballet classes a week, plus free work, plus doing the occasional workshop & summer school, and auditioning for associate programmes. Recreational dancers should also be at the grade 4 level, although maybe not the vocational classes for a while, if at all. Which is fine too. A dance school incapable of getting their students through exams in a timely fashion is not worth bothering with.

When auditioning for 16+ training, girls will NOT get into one of the top vocational ballet schools unless they are working at Advanced level and have outstanding technique. Boys are more likely to be taken on potential as there are far fewer of them.

For musical theatre, ballet isn't as vital, but they still need to be at decent Intermediate standard by 16, and probably advanced level in tap & modern/jazz.

@Mrssagt OP, you need to get her out of there now and find a better school, one that offers several ballet classes a week, plus vocational grades, and which has a good track record of getting students into the better dance colleges and vocational schools.

Slow and steady training does not win the race. Most dance schools in this country do not push talented students anywhere near enough for them to compete against international candidates for vocational training. A lot of people say too much too soon is wrong. That's all well and good, but they will not succeed in auditions against hothoused international students. If you don't believe me, look at some clips of the dancers aged 15 competing in YAGP, the Fonteyn competition (formerly the Genee), and the Prix de Lausanne.

Taxi is right. We realised this at age 11 (dd was working towards Grade 3 & at audition for vocational school was told she was behind on technique but they took her on potential. Age 11/12 there is time for potential. Ate 16, not so much.

@Comefromaway 🙂

@Mrssagt Ask her current school if she can add another ballet class in the grade above the one she's currently in, so that at least she can start learning the syllabus. If they say no, that's your cue to move her to another more accommodating school.

I'd also suggest she drops acro, she doesn't need it. Jazz would be better.

You can be honest but not rude.Its possible to get the message across at the same time be truthful and polite. Its important to progress in life and in relationships. I would give the dance school a call and say my daughter isnt happy, etc. and explain why.

Can't agree more, on all points. This is 100% what we have seen in classical ballet training. DD was roughly grade 5-6 (but not en pointe) when she was 10 and that was an average standard that wouldn't guarantee you a place at a top dance school.

Though OP's DD is doing lots of other styles and probably not aiming at top schools? Still grade 3 at this age is a bit behind as dance world is insanely competitive. I'd find a better school OP, not necessarily very pushy and fast paced but well established and structured.

Excellent advice from @taxi4ballet as always.

When I say dance college, she has her sights set on a local sixth form with a well established Btec dance program.
With a view to what OP? Does she aspire to be a professional dancer, want to teach or is it at is just that at this stage dance is what she loves doing, she wants to do more of it but hasn't really thought a huge amount about her long term goals?
If she wants to dance professionally, in any genre really you need to be thinking beyond the local college. If she wants to be a ballet dancer she needs to be in full time training in one of the most competitive dance schools by 16 at the latest, and even that is absolutely no guarantee of success. Only a small proportion of even those in the best schools in the country really "make it" in professional ballet companies.
Other genres have a bit more flexibility though are still highly competitive. MT, and contemporary in particular like more mature students so take lots at 18 or even older, so that is something she could do after a BTEC if the training is good enough. Look at what the exit destinations are from that course before she gets too fixed on the idea. I'd want to hear that reasonable number of pupils get accepted onto Level 6 Diploma or Degree courses at reputable Vocational Performing Arts Colleges. (Not to be confused with doing an academic dance degree at University which is seldom a route to a career as a performer.)
If she wants to teach, there are lots of different possibilities but if she wants to train with one of the big organisations like the RAD, ISTD or IDTA then she will need to have passed at least the Intermediate exams in the genres she wishes to teach. Obviously there's less pressure in terms of time taken to achieve that if that's her primary goal, but even so I'd say that approaching grade 3 at her age is less than ideal.
Whether she wants to perform, teach or both, I would suggest you start researching the industry together and find out more about what is likely to be required of her at each stage. Looking at people doing the kind of work that she hopes to do and seeing how they got there is a good start. If you go to watch a performance there are often brief biographies in the programme and there's lots of info available online.
Unfortunately there are far more talented kids, especially girls, who dream of a dance career than there will ever be jobs for and it is a brutal industry. Nothing a youngster does at this age will guarantee success, but not having a good foundation early on can certainly sabotage things. It's a bit like I say to the kids who I coach in a sport - a good start won't win a race but a bad start can certainly lose it for you. There are exceptions of course and people often tell you about them because they want to be kind or encouraging, but in my opinion it is better to be honest. The chances of a long term successful performing career are pretty slim for anyone but the vast majority who do succeed have travelled a similar path and most of them will have been beyond grade 3 when they're in year 8. That is not an insurmountable problem at this stage at all, but if you leave it it may become so. It sounds like your gut is telling you that this school is not the best environment for your DD - I'd act on that gut feeling. Look for a school with a proven track record of getting dancers into vocational training and also spread your net wider, looking at associate schemes, Summer schools and performance opportunities with youth companies as this may help her and you figure out which direction to go in.

A Btec programme at 6th form college will not lead directly into the industry. They are preparatory courses going towards auditioning for 18+ full-time training at vocational musical theatre colleges such as Bird, Mountview, Laine's etc, who offer Level 5/6 Trinity diplomas & BA courses in performing arts. Only after 3 years somewhere like that would a graduate be ready to start thinking about getting a contract as a professional performer.

It's tough out there. I would strongly advise anyone wanting a career on the stage to have a Plan B up their sleeve, and probably a Plan C as well.

What @MrsAvocet said.

@taxi4ballet my daughter did exactly that though. She wasn’t advanced standard and had only just done RAD intermediate foundation, not even intermediate, when auditioning for top vocational schools. She only auditioned for the top ballet schools and received several offers aged 16.
Her home dance school then rushed her through RAD intermediate the summer before she started.
She has since “caught up” to the others in training, many of them international, who had a lot more training before.
She’s still never done a competition and with being in full time training can’t learn the syllabus to take advanced one and two before she ages out for the Fonteyn. I guess that’s the only thing that I feel as a parent that she has missed out on and as with everything, you can only get true knowledge in retrospect.
If I was to go back in time though, I’m not sure I’d do much differently 🤷🏻‍♀️ The only thing I’d do is try her in associates from age 10 or 11 on a weekend.
Other girls from her local dance school are in full time training too, ranging from ballet to the top musical theatre schools, plus the local BTEC dance college.
Slow and steady can win the race if the dance school has excellent teachers and teaches excellent technique.

@TurningPointe Is she at one of Royal, ENBS, Elmhurst or Central?
That would be quite an achievement if so.

I'd help her move. DS got stuck with a rubbish piano teacher. Lost all his enthusiasm. When we moved him he loved piano again, made huge leaps. But he was held back, long term and never sat Grade 8 as it clashed with exams whereas musical friends who were with the better teachers from the start had done grade 8 before they hit second year GCSE. He told me later it's the one regret he has from childhood.