Autumn / Winter 2025 Music

[northerngoldilocks]

Time for a new thread in time for the new school term!

Come and talk about music lessons, choosing instruments, exams, auditions, specialist schools, orchestras or whatever other music activities are going on. Everyone is welcome, from those with total beginners to those whose children are studying music at advanced levels. Ask for advice or share successes or struggles.

@Siriusmuggle glad things are back on track.

I think so. He’s cross though.

Quite right! He should be cross. What a stupid mistake they made.

@Siriusmuggle he should be flipping furious. As should you!

DD2 is dipping her first (tentative) toe into the world of thinking about next steps tomorrow with the RAM woodwind day. She's just started year 12 and I think wants uni not conservatoire, but needs to see both to understand.

The whole idea of four years of just playing a bassoon scares her - and me. Will be intrigued to see what she thinks and am trying not to limit her to things her dad and I understand..

I hope she enjoys it @achangeofnameisasgoodasarest. It’s tricky when there’s a chance that they’re going to enter a world you have no experience of. I feel a bit like that with dd and medicine!

I'm sure you already know this but it's not 4 years of only playing your instrument.
there are academic requirements and, depending on Conservatoire, choices of modules that cover a wide range of interests, e.g. Music in the community, historical research etc.I

I hope she finds it offers some insights.

@Alwaysplayspicc I know very little! I assumed it wasn't four years of just blowing into things, but there is much to learn. I am going too...though will probably mainly be working in whatever canteen they have to offer.

Picc is right. The practical -academic balance is much more practical weighted at conservatoire but to give an example at my son's the breakdown in Year 1 would be something like

Performance (solo/ensemble/workshops etc 55%
World Music 20%
Musicianship (harmony/composition/improvisation/analysis) 35%

In later years there are options in pedagogy, philosophy & music history etc

Thanks @Comefromaway - that's helpful.

It seems to me so baffling that they'll take people with a 2 E offer and then expect academic competence - how do they know they can handle the harmony stuff - which seems to be maths - from how well they play a single-line instrument? Guess it works for them though.

Hopefully all will become clear to me tomorrow - but more importantly clear to DD2

Grade requirements are higher where ds is. However both he (at Leeds) and his friend who applied to RNCM had to do an online theory test as part of the admission process. Ds had to talk about/analyse a piece of music too.

If applying to universities check who offers 1:1 lessons as part of the course. Not all do.

I'd estimate the practical content of most university degrees varies (depending on module options) from 20-30%, some will be a bit higher.

@Comefromaway that's interesting! See I have no idea about any of this- good job she's at a school that does.

All university degrees you take 120 credits each year. Many universities split that into 4 modules of 30 credits each. One module may be performance (which often becomes solo performance/recital in the final year. So 25% performance withthe other three modules being academic is a common thing.

Conservatoires often split their modules into 10 credit ones, 20 credit ones or even 30 credit ones so in his first year my son had a 30 credit module in solo performance, 30 credit module in ensemble, 10 credit in music technology, 20 credits in aural/theory, 15 credits in composition and 15 credits in contextual studies

@Comefromaway thanks so much for this. I'll go tomorrow with an open mind and try to learn the difference between the two different types of course, and then see what DD2 thinks.

The school is, I think, interested in her considering three years at a uni and then a MMus (is that what the masters is called) - it's hard to see much of a downside in that except presumably you need to still be good enough for conservatoire after three years at a uni.

She did well enough at GCSE to at least get to look at Oxford/Cambridge/Durham (she likes choral singing so they seem a good fit from that point of view) - and her HoD has mentioned a particular Manchester course that she says is very competitive. We will see what she likes - and what seems achievable, crucially) I guess.

@achangeofnameisasgoodasarest - I imagine that it is the joint course between Manchester uni and RNCM - very competitive as it gives a bit of both worlds.
DD says its not uncommon for people to hold a conservatoire place as a back up for not making an Oxbridge offer.

Probably Manchester Uni which is delivered in partnership with RNCM.

A friend of ds did his degree at York then did his Mmus at RNCM

Just be aware that funding is different for standalone masters degrees.

You get one postgraduate loan which currently stands at £12.5k. That has to cover tuition and maintenance. Fees for masters generally start at £11k per year and can be up to £18k in some cases. But some conservatoire masters are 2 years and you don't get any more loan. My son was looking at RAM and the fees for their masters in Musical Directing are currently £16k

An expensive minefield then - thanks @Comefromaway

There are bursaries etc you can apply for, but best to plan for worst case scenario.

Guildhall charge half fees of £7k for home masters students and also offer bursaries. DD was offered £10k pa for a 2 year masters at Guildhall which would have covered the £7k fees and commuting costs to live at home.

A friend’s DD is doing music and philosophy at Durham, having also had a conservatoire offer. She gets loads of playing and 1st study lessons.

Plenty of pro musicians have previously graduated from Oxbridge in other subjects before doing masters at conservatoire.
It takes effort and focus, obviously, but it is possible.

Thanks all - it all seems very academic and a bit presumptuous at the moment to even think of such things - but I guess good she gets her head round what there is to apply for!

I agree - especially as the Oxbridge and conservatoire application dates are so much earlier than standard UCAS

@achangeofnameisasgoodasarest I think I’ve talked about this before but it’s common to go into the profession having done a university degree + conservatoire masters. I was a bit backwards as did it the other way round but have so many friends who did this. It’s infinitely easier to do if you are a wind or brass player as practice demands are so much less, but I’ve got lots of string and pianist friends (inc DH!) who also managed it.

To be honest, for someone with good academic as well as musical potential it’s what I would recommend (unless you literally can’t imagine doing anything else) as leaves maximum options open later on.

On the topic of unis, does anyone know how this scheme works in real life? Is it doable, hard to combine with STEM for example, would they even allow STEM with that much music?

www.st-andrews.ac.uk/music/students/music-as-part-of-your-degree/

It would be doable up to a point. I did Biochemistry at St Andrews and it would be very easy to incorporate at least two of the first-year courses, maybe all four if you had good A level grades. Second-year would be more difficult, depending on the STEM subject and whether there were timetable clashes. I think third year would be next to impossible; all my third-year courses were mandatory and they were all Biochemistry. However, a friend of mine did Biology and Geology combined Honours and the university were happy to work with her to do that. So it would definitely be worth asking about a combined STEM and Music degree as if that was something that might appeal.