Autumn / Winter 2025 Music

[northerngoldilocks]

Time for a new thread in time for the new school term!

Come and talk about music lessons, choosing instruments, exams, auditions, specialist schools, orchestras or whatever other music activities are going on. Everyone is welcome, from those with total beginners to those whose children are studying music at advanced levels. Ask for advice or share successes or struggles.

@lovinglife2025 welcome! Sounds like your son is doing brilliantly. What does he play?

I suspect that most people at those big traditional boarding schools will not be at JDs too. Though some will if they're willing to sacrifice the sport.

DD2 is at a boarding school, but is defiantly non-sporty.

She doesn't do JD too - there isn't any need if the school music is good enough I guess (though hers is a specialist school for music). Even if she wanted to, she has ordinary lessons on a Saturday morning (english and history and the like) so would be missing too much work!

@lovinglife2025 Sounds like your child loves whatever he puts his hand to. At our JD, full attendance is absolutely expected. Also, it's so expensive we don't ever miss a week! They won't make up lessons either. It's not fair on the other players to have parts missing. ( Although mine did/do wind so it's obvious if any are missing, maybe different for strings) You would have to check with the JD what they said. Would sports fixtures not be every week? There are loads of holiday courses ( many discussed recently) which might work better? Hope you come to a good decision!

@lovinglife2025 welcome! I don’t have any recent/personal experience of this as my kids are young but I think there are choices to be made at some point. A good friend of mine had to decide between Arsenal youth academy and Menuhin school and went for Menuhin - possibly not the best financial decision 🤣.

I do know lots of musicians who didn’t go to JDs - either because they were too far to travel to or because they had school on Saturdays - they’re definitely not the be all and end all and really depends what music opportunities your DS will have elsewhere - eg the 1-1 lesson can be sorted privately but can he access the right level of ensembles? (And is that important to him - might be instrument dependent?)

Hi @lovinglife2025 congrats on your DS's scholarship!

We are in a similar situation, DD is an all-rounder and loves both sport and music, and she has been at JD for a few years. Schools and JDs differ in their policies so it's better to double check with them but the JD my DD went to allows just one absence per term and they became more strict on attendance enforcement recently. DD had to miss all Saturday fixtures because of this and it wasn't ideal. Eventually you would need to choose and if your DS is not at JD yet perhaps it doesn't make much sense to join. Most of them would not allow having two teachers on the same instrument either, I assume your DS is having music lessons at school as part of scholarship and that would mean you would be coming to JD for ensembles and group lessons only. If your school ensembles are good, it probably wouldn't worth it. Having said that, I know of children who come to JD on Saturdays even from music schools, but they don't play competitive sport and their schools don't have academic lessons on Saturdays.

Hi @lovinglife2025. My son was offered a music scholarship at a London day school where they have sat sports and they agreed that he could miss that to attend his Sat centre and that they would contribute financially to the tuition rather then teach him in school. We didn’t take up the place but there are definitely options.

However, DS isn’t sporty so missing sat team sports wasn’t an issue and given your ds is and also is a music scholar so assume he gets tuition and ensembles anyway, not sure what gap you’d be looking to fill with a JD? I suppose the ensembles will vary depending on other kids?

That would be the question - what would a JD provide that the school doesn't, and is it worth missing out on the sport aspect?

I didn't even know about JDs until I joined this thread (!), but our DS has done very well musically as a scholar at a non-specialist school. As a big fish in a small pond he's had opportunities to join all sorts of ensembles, accompany all sorts of people and had a whale of a time. If your DS is motivated and loves music, you may well find the same thing happens!

Then again, DS is not remotely sporty.

@lovinglife2025 mine had Saturday school so we didn't consider a JD. He transferred to a specialist boarding school for 6th form so no real need for JD at that point. He's now 4th year of a music performance degree regardless of no JD.

JDs may have better specialist ensembles than even specialist music schools as they attract more children at advanced level even on "endangered" instruments so can actually form interesting groups. DD's JD definitely has a couple of groups not available at her school but I think sport is equally important.

A lot depends on particular schools and JD anyway.

@Ubertomusic I’m intrigued by the ‘interesting groups’- what makes them more interesting for endangered instruments? Dd2 has an overload of chamber groups at specialist school- you’d never fit them all in one day!

@herbaceous - all I hear from dd2 is how good the food is and how very very fancy the school is.. had some pictures of breakfast.

DD doesn't play a rare instrument but the school doesn't have a big brass band for example - maybe in older years though I haven't seen it yet. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that @lovinglife2025 's DS is at a non/specialist school, and I have never seen a decent brass band even in top private schools, they simply don't have enough players or not very advanced. DD played in a brass band at one of the top boys schools supposedly good for music - it wasn't advanced tbh. It's all instrument dependent though, string ensembles can be found almost anywhere.

There is also a matter of teachers, the no1 priority for soloists. BBC YM finalist went to a top private school but as far as I know he was on the weekly plane to Paris to have lessons with his previous conservatoire teacher (I may be wrong but that's what I heard). PP's DS is not at JD yet so it's not a problem, but for us it was a very difficult decision even though DD is not a soloist. You have to really click with your violin teacher to be able to sustain it long term.

No lack of chamber groups of course which is great for versatility (one of the biggest advantages in my view) and not necessarily available at JDs, ditto baroque instruments, very niche and not every JD has options for younger players whereas specialist schools are more encouraging. Some unusually excellent niche ensembles like horns etc. Lots of other nuances too, music is such an individual journey I think it has to be tailor made in any case.

@achangeofnameisasgoodasarest - I'm relying on the FB photos for my fix. The only pic I've had from DS is of a cup of tea!

Have tried to work out which one your DD is from the sectionals photos!

@Ubertomusic ah, I see, hadn't thought of brass bands - seems a culture all its own!

@herbaceous, you see I can work out who your DS is because I watched the chorister thing all those years ago. You'll find DD in the middle - exactly where she likes to be. She says the top bassoon is 'amazing' (and that's praise she doesn't lavish lightly).

Oddly, given our discussion here, despite one being JD and one specialist school, they share a teacher.

I have no idea what the other horns are like, but know DS has been put on first for one of the pieces, much to his surprise. But then horn part placement (not a euphamism) seems unlike other instruments. Third can be more difficult and important than first, for example.

@achangeofnameisasgoodasarest also eg I think the JDs will do things like “bassoon choir” or “horn group” playing through arrangements for say 8-12 of whatever instrument it is, not as a regular fixture but for random concerts/showcases. (NYO also does a lot of that in the sectionals too).

Also things like bigger classical chamber works (eg Strauss, Dvorak, Mozart serenades for winds) need a lot of good wind players, so must be very school/JD dependent as to whether they’ve got enough of the right level and in the right combinations. Obviously not a big deal not to play any of this stuff however!

Ah, I see @Compsearch . DD does currently have a (small) bassoon group, and the Schubert octet, and a double reed group, and a wind dectet (just did some divertissement by someone called Bernard or something?) and a separate quintet.

Same sort of stuff, maybe? Or maybe there's even more! I think she finds it quite enough given she's also in a flute ensemble, three 'orchestras' or bands, and two choirs.

@herbaceous DD says she's second in the Mahler, first in the Hansel and Gretel thingy. Nice they swap them about. She says playing second is a skill all of its own.

Yes - in my bassooning years, playing second was almost harder. Lower register and fingering takes a different technique!

I don't know how they place them in sections without having heard them play.

Think they'd done it in sectionals for DD2 @ herbaceous - she didn't know until after she got there - and I think the others aren't new to the course. So maybe that makes it easier to plan

BBC YM finalist went to a top private school but as far as I know he was on the weekly plane to Paris to have lessons with his previous conservatoire teacher (I may be wrong but that's what I heard)

This is correct but he also had lessons at Eton with the teacher that DD had at JG. So a double "whammy" of lessons over and above the normal JD or specialist school - he effectively had a specialist teacher at school and an advanced conservatoire at the weekend.

JD teachers often teach at top private or specialist schools, RCM prof was HoD at StPauls as far as I remember, the brass band DD played in at boys school was led by a JD teacher, but I agree he's had lots of input from everywhere and I suppose an excellent first teacher in his home country too.

It may be tricky though for younger ones to have multiple teachers while they're still working on their technique, different approaches can be confusing or I guess even just different styles. Hahn and Podger are both baroque specialists but they are worlds apart in their style.

Ah Rachel Podger the "Queen of the gut stringed violin" according to the Times! I agree.

Amusingly DD and her prep school rival pianist went different ways at Yr 7 - DD to JD and the rival to specialist - DD was offered the same teacher when she rocked up at JG as the other girl had at specialist. Also, unlike the rival, DD had a choice - and went with someone else.......

:) I didn't even want to touch the matter of choice of teachers, the rivalry and the politics of different places 😁🤦‍♀️ It's not for the fainthearted 😂

London offers more choice obviously, and IIRC NYO first violins last year were predominantly from London or suburbs - just a coincidence of course.

Then again, getting back to the question of teachers, when Bron moved to Germany his pupils had to follow even though there was absolutely no shortage of excellent violin teachers in Russia back then.

This is a world I'm very glad to be unaware of!

As for ESO, @achangeofnameisasgoodasarest, FB had some highly amusing videos of a celidh last night. Very wholesome.

I saw @herbaceous ! We’re actually busting dd2
out this evening for dinner with friends- she can get to cadogan perfectly well from here in the morning - looking
forward to all the goss

Saw the ceilidh videos, they need to team up with National youth orchestra of Scotland! Scottish teens famously do ceilidh dancing for PE throughout December in the run up to Christmas dances so are all adept. They moan incessantly about it but it comes in handy at uni/ weddings etc ( not that they will ever admit it!)