Moving to a new scout group? (Close to home but child doing well where he is).

[Panini5]

DS (age 6 as of last week) started squirrels April 2024 when age 4 in a group ~15 min drive away in another town (our town has no squirrel drays). He has been doing moving on with beavers in that group and will be a full time beaver there from September.
I had an email yesterday saying a place had opened up for him at beavers in our town. This would be ~15 minute walk away. (5 mins or less in the car).

When he started squirrels he didn’t talk. We used makaton and accepted any form of communication we could get out of him. He was extremely shy, wouldn’t mix with others and under speech therapy. He threw himself into squirrels and it’s been the best thing for him. He now talks at squirrels/beavers and is getting quite fluent (for his age/age appropriate language) and has been on every camp and day away going. He loves it. His issues aren’t “solved” because he still won’t talk as much at school or anywhere else we take him. (He does talk at home and at times we can’t get him to shut up, all he seems to talk about squirrels/beavers). He seems really settled, it is doing him the world of good and I think the volunteers are amazing with him.

Logistically it would be a lot easier to move him and long term (thinking cubs, scouts etc) probably better because the speech difficulties will resolve over time. Also the group in our town has a better meeting time (5:30-6:30 on Mondays) where it’s 6:15-7:15 on Fridays in the current group. Additionally, if we turn down the place, we are unlikely to be offered another one in the future.

The group in our town will have children from his current school (who know he doesn’t talk/doesn’t talk a lot) which has the potential of sending him backwards/making him not like scouting. Part of me (and the speech therapist and the squirrels leaders) thinks he may be more confident at squirrels/beavers because no one knows him, they have never treated him any differently to any other child and it was his “fresh start” or “his space” kind of thing.

This is making me wonder whether we should turn down the place offered in our town (which he was deliberately on the list for so we could move to a group closer to home) and continue with the group he is currently in. Unfortunately he can’t “try it out” because it’s the summer holidays and I don’t want to hold a place until mid/end of September if we “tried it out in September” which someone else could have right from the start of September.

If this group is really working for your don, don't move.

There can be quite a bit of movement between Beavers and Cubs and Cubs and Scouts (as the new evening doesn't work, or they chose football/swimming/dance etc) so you aren't necessarily commuting forever.

Try both for a few weeks & see what works best and how he responds.

Can you explain to the leaders, do both for a while and then swap to the closer one when / if your DS is settled?

I think in your specific situation I wouldn't risk changing something that is working.

If if was a week before the end of term, I would have possibly done this, but I feel like holding a place in 2 groups over several months is wrong when that place could be offered out to someone else. I get that it is summer so it isn’t actually impacting, but if he tries a couple of weeks in September and it’s doesn’t work, we have effectively robbed someone of a place for a couple of weeks.

I think I’m leaning towards this despite the awkward time and commuting. It is on a Friday so it wouldn’t actually matter if he was back late.

That would be my choice. He is settled in the current group and it may be best if school and outside activities remain distinct. He may have 2 very different personas so trying to merge the school and beaver may be a very poor decision.

Honestly I really don't see why you are being so precious about this. Your child has additional needs and it's really not a big ask for him to try out a new group for a few weeks before committing to the change. If it doesn't work out and you decide not to move him, another child will be glad to get the place and it really won't make much difference to them whether they start a few weeks later than they would have done otherwise.

If my kid was on the waiting list for beavers (they have been and are on waiting lists for various things) I would actually rather your child was given the opportunity to try it out first before my child was offered a place.

Also, when they do camps and activities at various far-flung locations, it's super helpful to be able to liftshare with friends who live nearby. You can probably do this with friends from the current group but if he's just as happy in the new group it'll be easier with people who live closer.

Dont get me wrong, I would suck it up if he didn't settle in the new group, and stick to the one he's in - it's just that I would get him to try it first.

I'd worry that trying new group could set him back within existing one.

if he tries a couple of weeks in September and it’s doesn’t work, we have effectively robbed someone of a place for a couple of weeks

As good as this sentiment is, I think this is one of those situations where you have to put your child first.

I'm a cub leader, and honestly, if a parent came to me and explained the situation you are in, I would absolutely let you try both groups at the same time. If it didn't work out, it would be no problem, I'd just offer a place to the next child on the waiting list at that point.

The best thing you can do is talk to the leaders, just be honest with them. If they aren't willing to let your child do both groups, then I'd leave your child where they are, as it's not worth the risk of moving when he's doing so well there. But you might be surprised at how accommodating the leaders are, and if another child has to wait for a place for a couple of extra weeks, so be it.

This! This does worry me.

@NameChange30 and @budgiegirl Thank you for saying from the point of view of being on waiting lists and as a leader, I think that needed said to me. I think I was being ‘precious’ about not taking up two places because it just didn’t sit right with me for some reason which i can’t quite put my finger on. I know the waiting lists are as long as my arm and I didn’t want any child to miss out on the opportunity - but you are both indeed right. A couple of weeks, if it’s the right thing to do for DS, isn’t going to massively disadvantage anyone.

I’ve taken all the advice on board and been thinking. I’ve decided I will drop an email to the in-charge squirrel leader and the in-charge beaver leader from the current group and the in-charge beaver leader from the group in our town. (Sorry, in not sure what the proper name is for the in-charge leader. Head? Top? Chief? Boss?).
Anyways, I think setting up a discussion (4-way phone call kind of thing) would be beneficial if the leaders have time over the summer. I think it’s only right that everyone is on the same page regards DS and his difficulties. It seems to be a good way forward and we can make a decision as to what would be best for him - trial with new group then decide which one, or stay where he is without the trial.

I don't think you should worry about this, if trying both at once is allowed and would be helpful.

I would genuinely not begrudge this for a child in your son's situation. This isn't just someone being indecisive, this is about identifying the best situation for a child with serious speech and social challenges - much more hangs on this decision than would usually. Prioritize yourself and your son a bit more.

4 way phone call over the summer?! They are not a commercial enterprise they are all unpaid volunteers with their own lives remember and running these clubs out of kindness. Obviously your child’s need are front and centre in your own mind but can you factor this in please?

As your DS is doing so well in his current group I would keep him where he is. I think it's nice to have a different set of friends to school. If school friends have a fall out he has different friends to hang out with. Sometimes seeing the same friends at school and then camp can get tiresome.
It sounds like the current group is really bringing him on.

Someone else will take the local place in mid September also. Try both for a couple of weeks.

This is why is said “if they have time”. I am equally happy to have it all done via email with everyone included in it. However, I was going to suggest it, if it can’t happen, it can’t happen. I am very aware they are all volunteers and I respect everything they do for all the kids week in and week out and all the time they give up willingly.

I think if you are already in scouting you take priority in waiting lists, so if you wanted to transfer into cubs at a later stage you might be able to even if long waiting list

I don't think you need to talk to both group leaders together, you can talk to them separately. They will be slightly different conversations anyway.

Current group: DS has been offered a place at a group much closer to where we live, so we'd like to try it out, but he has settled so well at this group that I won't move him unless he copes well with it

Potential new group: explain DS's additional needs, that he has settled well at current group but you'd like him to try out new group as it's closer to home, would it be ok for him to try it for a couple of weeks and see how he gets on before deciding whether to commit to moving

These are pretty straightforward emails to send. When my DS joined Beavers, I told the leader he's autistic and anxious about new things, and she offered a phone call - we had a really helpful chat about DS and how we could support him in starting and settling. So I think it would be a good "test" to see how the new group leader responds, hopefully they will be helpful and reassuring.

As a scout leader (of scouts and occasionally of squirrels, beavers and cubs when needed) I 100% would want you to come and talk to me about this rather than turning down the place.

I think your heart is in the right place by not wanting to take spaces from others, but don’t worry about that. We have systems in place that do allow for situations and circumstances like yours. You are not disadvantaging anyone but yourself and your son if you turn down the place without having the conversations.

I would defiantly let your child have a trial for a few weeks if that was what you/they wanted to do. I’m sure something could be arranged where your child does something similar to the “moving on award” from beaver to beavers and attends both groups during a transitional period. Unconventional, but you have circumstances which indicate that a reasonable adjustment should be made. If it didn’t work, or you decided not to go ahead with a trial at the new group, we just offer the place to the next young person on the waiting list.

I would also be supportive of the conversation between all the leaders and yourself and try to accommodate this. I couldn’t promise that one would happen, but we would certainly try and help it happen if we had availability. The likelihood is you would end up with 2 or 3 separate conversations, but we genuinely would try and accommodate one (especially if it is the same district as we’ll probably all know each other anyways). Your child has needs which need to be discussed, you are not being a demanding parent unnecessarily taking up our time. (If you were you would have no chance).

My advice would be to hold both places, send the email off to them all explaining the background, current situation and highlighting your concerns. You don’t need to go OTT but you probably do need give some additional details that you might not have shared here (and you don’t have to share any more here) and say “if a conversation between all is possible, can we please arrange one? If this is not possible, I will be happy to answer questions and discuss via email”. This would be received well and you wouldn’t be seen as the demanding parent.

Please remember - if you don’t speak up, we can’t help. And we like to help.

PS The in-charge leader is the Lead Volunteer. :)

Given how far they are apart in the week, so both for half a term and see how it goes.

Drop the beaver leader at the new group a note explaining the communication issues and how they vary between squirrels and school.

Pay subs for both for the first half term. Make sure you’ve narrowed it down before end of October so you don’t mess up the annual census return. Don’t be that parent who wants leaders to share info about program and activities and do badge awards joint across the two sections.

(and I’m a beaver leader).

Quick update - he’s staying where he is.

I did send the email and I have had a chat with both groups. Both groups were supportive of a trial period so we were going to go with that.

DS was invited along to a day trip with the group closer to home 2 weekends ago. He hated it, he didn’t speak and came home crying. It was all to do with being in the group with people from school. We had an awful week with him and he nearly didn’t go to the sleepover with his original group this weekend.

He did end up going, I almost dragged him there, I hated myself for it but knew it needed to happen to make sure he hadn’t been put off scouting forever. He went on his squirrels/beaver sleepover at the group camp for his original group this weekend and is back to being the child he was when he was only in that group. He’s been happy and excited and telling us all sorts since he came back.

I’ve made the decision he is staying with the original group. I will contact both groups next week and let them know.

Thank you everyone for helping us with this.