Doing Duke of Edinburgh purely for UCAS?

[WestMuncher]

DD, who is going into Year 10, really isn’t outdoorsy or sporty in the slightest. She’s just got back from a Year 9 adventure week and absolutely hated it. Ditto camping with Guides when she tried that last year.

She’s got her eye on a very competitive uni course though and is already keen to do everything she can to maximise her chance of a place. She’s saying she thinks she ought to do Duke of Edinburgh (Bronze), yet is this really going to make a difference? She really would be doing it purely for UCAS as it just isn’t the kind of thing she enjoys.

She plays piano to Grade 4 and will probably get another grade or two in before UCAS time. She also sings in chamber choir (which requires an audition although she’s never done singing grades). That’s it so far though in terms of extra-curriculars. She’s not into either sport or drama.

Definitely won’t make any difference. Most important are grades (this is crucial), then subject knowledge/ reading around the topic. Plus anything that demonstrates she is bright (maths Olympiad etc). Maybe relevant work experience if she can get some (most students don’t), which might include things like working with children, working in a medical setting or something computing-related depending on which type of psychology career she is interested in in the long run.

Personal statements are not being phased out. They are the same number of characters (4000) but that now will be in response to three questions to give them some structure. For a highly academic course she will need to show passion and interest for her subject. Much better to focus on how she would do that.

If she wanted to do the D of E then Gold would really be the only level of interest…and only really to demonstrate that she can complete a programme independently…based on her interests.

They are. They get a series of more structures questions instead but it sort of covers the same stuff that a personal statement would have

My son got the advice that the statement was much more about why that course, so everything kept having to relate back to what he wanted to study. So dof e could if structured well but then you could achieve that without d of e too..

She can be a Young Leader with Guiding from 14. Very relevant to her chosen degree.

Can she pick up a language, op? x

As others say - not useful at all. Competitive courses are after super curricular (related to the course) not extra curricular. In year 10 she could start reading books that she finds interesting (and making a note of which she has read and key points that she found interesting), find someone on YouTube / TikTok that talks about stuff she is interested in.

That and enjoy herself with things she enjoys doing.

Oxford interviews are subject based. They are not interested in whether you helped built a school in Africa or got bronze D of E. First get top GSCE grades with the majority grades 7 - 9, exceeding her cohort at school. Then get a minimum of A*AA for her predicted grades at the end of year 12. Then smash the admissions test & hope to secure an interview.

Bronze will make no difference, loads of them do it. I’d gently steer away.

DD just finished gold and said it was one of the hardest things she’s ever done, not because of the walking but the complaining! Bronze was also a nightmare because of the woefully under prepared girls she was with, many of whom had never walked any distance/ camped before. One cried the entire time and refused to carry anything.

I did the Bronze but dropped out of the Silver and continued to volunteer with the St Andrew's Ambulance Corps where I'd tackled the first aid part of the DoE.

Something like a first aid certificate might be of more interest and use to your daughter.

My dd would agree with your dd @gianfrancogorgonzola
Gold was fine - yes, longer, and more challenging, but with people who actually wanted to be there and who had the skills to complete the expedition, unlike the bronze where she had to 'carry' the group who were ill pre-pared and unwilling.

Thank you. Yes she’s just this weekend applied to volunteer with Rainbows from September.

She’s already doing French and Spanish for GCSE.

Gold carries NO weight as far as UCAS is concerned either.

Some elements of it might have some effect eg volunteering for some health related courses but other than that unis do not care about extra curricular it's all about supra

If a student wants to do it for their own personal enrichment then yes do it but don't be under the mistaken impression it is needed to enhance a uni application.

There are some volunteers at my dd's rainbows class

Your dd sounds amazing 🙌

She shouldn't do something she hates, honestly, I dont think it will be worth it

It is the components of the DofE which are useful, especially the volunteering. She could though just do more volunteering and it will probably be more relevant than saying she has done DofE.

Mine have all done Bronze though and it has been useful to discuss about team work in interviews, but she can probably do that from her lifesaving and singing. If she did decide to do Bronze then encourage her to co-opt things she is already doing so she could do singing for the skills and swimming/lifesaving for the physical, Rainbows for volunteering and then it is just the weekends. Mine are definitely not the most physically active but they all felt a sense of achievement at the end of it.

We were told at an RG university open day that DofE is often seen as a privileged thing to do and as such is pretty much disregarded. My DD is starting a psychology degree this year, never did DofE (not outdoorsy in the slightest!) or really anything extra curricular at all but participated in a psychology competition with her college at Royal Holloway in L6. She wrote about it in her personal statement and it was commented on by a couple of excellent universities who gave her offers. She also did lots of reading around the subject and showed enthusiasm for it. I think that’s the most important thing!

It is to introduce the pupils to life outside of their comfort zone.

Lots don't end up completing even the Bronze Award, let alone the Silver or even the Gold but lots and lots of people continue with things they started as part of their DofE. Be that the volunteering or the physical or the skill or the camping, map reading, and planning skills for the Expedition.

I am a volunteer with Scouts - we have lots of teens come to do 3 or 6 month Volunteering for their DofE who then find they really enjoy it, and stay on for years. Personally, I learned map reading, navigating, and how to route plan for my DofE back in the dark ages, and we enjoyed it so much, it led to a lifetime of hiking holidays. My dd had team mates join her team for their physical, and really got into the sport and stayed until they left school and the team broke up.

Very few will achieve their Gold (I heard something like 3% of people that enrol into the scheme), but, to me, that's like saying don't give your dc the opportunity to learn an instrument unless you think they are going to achieve Grade 8, or don't send your dc to swimming lessons unless they are going to become competitive swimmers.

The WHOLE POINT of DofE is to introduce children and young people to things they haven't done before and for them to gain skills from that.

The expedition bit of DoE is only one element along with volunteering, developing a new skill and developing a physical activity. These have to be done over 3 months with one of choice taking 6 months. She could link the volunteering bit to something relevant to psychology but she doesn't have to do DoE in order to do that. Universities want to see something that demonstrates a commitment to the subject
If the school does not have a psychology society she could set one up, talk about the speakers she has invited, the visits they have made to a psychology dept. at a local university, the articles from journals they have discussed etc. which will impress a university more than bronze DoE which many applicants will have
I speak as a DoE leader at my school. It definitely has its place but it sounds like your child could demonstrate her commitment without having to do DoE.

As others have said, my understanding from my sixth form daughter is that these days it tends to be less about extra curricular and more about "supra curricular" ie going deeper in the curriculum and doing extra things relevant to the subject they want to study.

So no, I wouldn't do it purely for ucas. I'd focus on supra curricular

She should speak to the Head of Psychology/Social Sciences and ask if she could help them with setting up a KS4 Psychology club. It could be run by Y12/13s with a bit of teacher input, and this would be fab for her UCAS application "Instumental in starting a Y10 Psychology club, where my passion for xyz started" Teachers love their subject and a way to encourage keen students to pick it at A level.

If not look at other opportunities, like Interact (young rotary) or starting a Bold Voices group.

Doing DofE if she'll hate it is just not worth it and unfair on the others in her groups

DD got a Cambridge offer (for English) and her ex got an offer for Psychology. She won an outreach essay prize and was the editor of the school newspaper. His psychology group were award winners at Scamp (The Study of Cognition, Adolescents and Mobile Phones) and he was one of the school's mental health ambassadors and they both did an absolute ton of super curricular reading to detail how they fell in love with their subject.

They were told not to even mention D of E. Her editor experience was one line. The most important thing is documenting your journey into why you found the subject so interesting.

Yes she has been arguing this actually that’s already covering the physical and skill by things she’d be doing anyway (I think her lifesaving qualification counts as service as it’s beneficial to the community?). So the only extra bit would be planning and doing the two expeditions which she’d do with friends. I really do think she’d hate them though.

I'd also be really wary about being fixed on going to Oxford in year 9. How does she know what predicted a level grade she might get? And even with the top grades it's so competitive. It's great she's got an interest in psychology though and so many great unis to choose from

It’s not important for university application and won’t add anything if she doesn’t really want to do it.

We’ve just been through the Oxford application process. They care absolutely nothing about extra-curriculars. Super-curriculars are all they are interested in. She needs to put the extra effort into things that are related to the subject that she wants to study. Summer schools, online courses, reading around the subject, doing anything that demonstrates passion for the subject area.