Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

In addition to Stagecoach, advice on 121 singing lessons etc

22 replies

LovingGoldJoker · 07/05/2025 20:43

My daughter is 8. She started Stagecoach almost a year ago (3 hours a week in a large group: 1 dance, 1 singing, 1 drama). She also does their holidays courses and joins the troupes for extra shows. She is obsessed with musical theatre and says that’s what she wants to do with her life. She’s obviously very young, I know it’s insanely competitive. I’m not from that background at all so would like some help understanding what might be best in addition to what she’s already doing.

The bit she likes most is the singing and she wants to get better at it so I’m thinking of one to one lessons. Stagecoach offer one to one coaching (extra 20 mins a week) or to work towards LAMDA exams but don’t know if that’s the best option.

She doesn’t currently learn a musical instrument and school is a bit crap on the music front. I feel like I’d like her to learn to read music as part of the singing lessons. I’m not sure they’d do this at Stagecoach. Maybe I’d be better booking private lessons through a music school and her doing ABRSM type exams to get that? Aware that’s a different type of singing from musical theatre though.

Also aware dance is not one to get behind with if looking ahead to try and get into a performing arts college, maybe she should be doing more of that? She currently does gymnastics and has done from a young age but no ballet etc.

All advice gratefully received.

OP posts:
midlandsmummy123 · 08/05/2025 00:58

So not quite the same but my daughter does classical singing ABRSM exams and also violin, because of her singing she's had the opportunity to take part in musical theatre productions and I would say just get the best singing teacher you can, regardless of exam board / stagecoach and don't assume all music teachers are equal, we're now on our third violin teacher and I wish she had been our first. If you're in Essex / Suffolk or London I know of an excellent independent music theatre school which does singing/dancing/acting training for musical theatre.

Re learning to read / music theory - honestly, that's something she could learn for free on youtube.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 08/05/2025 10:59

Where are you based?

If she's serious about it then you would want:

1:1 singing lessons (find a private provider)
ballet lessons
Look into things like Spirit Young Performers - they have audition entry weekend training (weekly and a monthly option) in central London

I suspect she will outgrow Stagecoach quite fast.

You should also look at getting her an agent if the dynamics and commitment work for you and the family.

LovingGoldJoker · 08/05/2025 12:31

Thanks for the advice. We’re in Surrey. Yes I’m beginning to think we need ballet as well as decent 121 singing.

Will look at Spirit Young Performers.

OP posts:
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 08/05/2025 13:24

My DD loathed ballet, but it's the foundation of all dance. I made her go for about 7 years... she thanks me now 😂

Spirit has a dance company as well so maybe worth looking at what classes they have and whether you could do it all under the one banner.

Octavia64 · 08/05/2025 13:27

AbRSM singing at the lower grades/easier end is very useful for musical theatre.

at the upper grades it edges towards classical training - my DD did all
the Abrsm grades and really struggles with theatre type songs.

make sure you tell any singing teacher that musical theatre is where you are aiming.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 08/05/2025 13:46

You don't need to do grade exams unless you particularly want to.

We never bothered - just gave approximate level for things like music scholarships. DD was G8 level at 12. Nobody has ever been concerned about lack of pieces of paper (she got the scholarships).

It's been nice as she just works on whatever they feel like across multiple genres and no having to fixate for months on perfecting 3 pieces. (And it saves loads of money!)

skyeisthelimit · 08/05/2025 13:57

DD has got Grade 6 LCMS in Music Theatre and is doing Grade 8 in July

She is 17 now and started when she was 14. I pay £40 a week for an hours singing lesson.

It has given her confidence and she is a good singer.

She is doing Acting at College as she couldn't get onto the Musical Theatre course, there were 40 students for 20 places and sadly DD can't dance...

Needanadultgapyear · 10/05/2025 08:14

My DD is just about to graduate from Conti in musical theatre. I would find the best singing teacher you can - there are loads in the Surrey area as graduates from Conti, GSA and PPA often stay in the area and teach singing to supplement their income. Learning music theory is important as well to understand syncopation and how to read the music as professionally you are expected to be able to read music.
Ballet is the underpinning of all other dance styles so this is good dance training, but you want a school that really focuses on technique rather than just passing exams.
You could consider moving to Conti Associates at the main school site in Woking where the classes are overseen and taught by Conti staff - she could then do MT, ballet and singing all in one location.
But as you say 8 is young, DD didn’t take up ballet till she was 14 and singing and acting lessons she was 13. Prior to that her school dance and music teachers had told me she was talented, but that was it. So if she has the potential she doesn’t need to have been in classes since she was 4.
DD despite her late start teaches adult ballet and tap on Sundays, had got herself to grade 6 piano over the last 2 years and teaches MT on Saturdays.

CatatonicLadybug · 10/05/2025 15:35

Stagecoach is a funny one in that like any franchise model, you get the standouts and the bog standards. There are a couple Stagecoach locations on the edges of London who have multiple kids in West End shows and regularly perform as a group at things that are not just a Stagecoach show for parents. If you’re in one of those, I feel like you would know because those successes would be mentioned. If so, then she’s in a great place. If not, it would be good to look at other options that could be instead of or in addition to depending on everything from how quickly she outgrows their training, the schedule, your budget and so on.

For singing, I would ask for a trial session go watch the lesson. Don’t interact, just watch from a window or a corner of the room. Voice lessons run the gamut and it’s helpful to see the teaching style to know whether it will
help her. Some teachers focus on building repertoire and learning through knowing lots of songs in a variety of styles. Other teachers focus more on the technique and building strength and control in a voice before putting that into practice with actual songs. And some just know what will get a distinction in the exam so they essentially teach to the test and don’t really think about the bigger picture. Each has a purpose but you need to see the best fit for your performer. You should see dramatic progress relatively quickly with 1:1 lessons, so if you go a half-term and cannot put a finger on anything that has improved, move on to find the right teacher.

I’ve never known Stagecoach to teach music theory so she’ll need to get that on her own. There are lots of online lessons and workbooks. It is possible to learn it without a musical parent if needed. The current method of teaching young performers means their understanding of music theory is inconsistent and many stage schools are just using lyric sheets rather than sheet music all the way through. But when cast in a show, there is an inevitable moment when you are given sheet music and expected to learn it from there, and I can confirm these auditions and rehearsals are infinitely more pleasant when performers can read the music! It is a worthwhile use of her time and will make her a stronger performer.

ABRSM offer singing for musical theatre in addition to classical singing. LAMDA offer musical theatre in addition to their acting and public speaking options. The two are different in requirements and assessments. ABRSM have a list of songs and you choose one from each category plus a free choice and sing the set as a mini concert. There is no interview and no theory below grade 6. The assessment will mark for very technical singing so there is no forgiving a note that is flat or a rhythm that is wrong by making up for it with good acting for song - but they are also marked on their acting for song. LAMDA MT exams can be any songs, but they are marked predominantly on the performance and small technical flubs will not greatly affect the mark as long as they didn’t break character. There is an interview that includes a known set of theatre things they should know at each grade, and as they go up the grades, they also have to learn monologues and small scenes to lead into their song rather than singing it in a concert style.

Apologies that is possibly more than you would like to know but as you are considering both, it seems like it might be relevant. And then here is the kicker: both can be nice for learning but are not really required. When auditioning for shows, no one is ever going to ask or care about exam results. We only added ABRSM because a school opportunity had a minimum grade requirement to join the activity. We do LAMDA because it is offered through our school and it’s essentially the only thing in that category at school so it works for us but never ever has a casting director had the slightest interest in anything like that. Do it if it works for the child, not because you feel there’s a requirement.

And you are right, she’s going to need way more than one hour of dance. She will need ballet if she wants to do a musical theatre programme. She doesn’t have to be great at it! She just needs to learn the terminology and the body control, as that then makes it possible to learn the choreography in an ensemble. If she finds ballet really boring (and many talented MT performers do, so this should not be seen as a sign of failure) then try pairing it with another lesson in jazz, modern, tap, or street. Each has its own vocabulary and style but it all interlocks and creates a well rounded MT performer. Think of MT dance as needing to be a jack of all trades - they might need ballroom in Dirty Dancing or Moulin Rouge, then jazz in Chicago, then do a show with a dream ballet or a big tap number. The more versatile the better, but not to a point where an 8 year old is overwhelmed.

Now not to throw you in the deep end, but if you are within an hour to the West End and wanted to go for it, Les Mis are currently looking for girls to play young Cosette and Eponine - they can be 8 and have to be under 4’ 4”. There is no dance in this show and Cosette actually leaves partway through Act 1, so it is an ideal entry path. The audition process is not brutal. You don’t need an agent to apply but it closes very soon which is the only reason I mention it. On one hand, I’m probably overdoing it. On the other, if you have an MT obsessed girl who sings Castle on a Cloud at you so much you’re tempted to give her a broom and make sure she’s actually being useful, then you’ll kick yourself if you wait and she’s too tall. The details are on the Les Mis Instagram account.

All the best and I’m sorry for not being good at short and sweet messages.

taxi4ballet · 10/05/2025 17:25

@LovingGoldJoker for what it's worth, my view is that Stagecoach etc are what most keen youngsters do as well as their regular ballet, tap and modern/jazz classes at a proper dance school. If they are keen on singing, they can have separate lessons in that too.

So instead of looking for something in addition to Stagecoach, it really needs to be the other way round.

minnienono · 10/05/2025 17:31

I would get lessons from an independent singing teacher and encourage a range of styles - to make a living from singing being able to sing classical and liturgical as well as musical theatre will mean being able to pick up soloist roles at concerts eg Hansel’s Messiah (my dd gets £300 for an afternoon and evenings work, it helped through music college)! I’d also make sure she keeps up with academics because very few students of musical theatre ever get professional work, it’s simply a case of way too many course places available compared to jobs available. I’d also suggest she gets her sea legs … the only youngsters I know who got musical theatre work are on cruise ships (my dd teaches kids singing)

taxi4ballet · 10/05/2025 17:38

Just so you know - the preliminary auditions at all full-time musical theatre colleges start with a ballet class, then move on to jazz and singing. You need to be good at all three to get anywhere near finals, let alone be offered a place.

The competition is seriously fierce.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 10/05/2025 18:19

I would avoid LAMDA

I'm yet to come across anyone who has got less than 95% and a Distinction to the point that I wonder if they print certificates for any other grade.

It's also tick boxy and you can spot them a mile off in auditions as they all do the same actions to the songs.

And nobody professionally cares the slightest bit what certificates you have in anything. I always advise people to do exams if they are only interested as a hobby.

Singing teacher - find someone who wants to teach (and is qualified to teach - ideally with really good piano skills), not someone who wants to perform and is teaching on the side for some extra cash... unless you are happy when you get left in the lurch because they vanish on tour for 6 months. You should have a mix of exercises and songs, and songs should be taught via piano not backing tracks.

LovingGoldJoker · 10/05/2025 21:16

Wow lots of really helpful advice here, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and experiences. So much to consider.

I am near Italia Conti in Woking (and GSA and PPA) but looks like everything dance is also Saturday mornings which would mean changing from Stagecoach which she won’t want to do at the moment. I can definitely sort 121 singing for another time in the week though, I have found several options.

@CatatonicLadybug thanks for the Les Mis open audition heads up we have just filled in an application and sent in a headshot as she meets the criteria…though she’s never even done a self tape before so I suspect this is a little ambitious!

OP posts:
taxi4ballet · 11/05/2025 10:00

@LovingGoldJoker You need to find a regular ordinary local dance school for dance classes. One that's affiliated to one of the major examining bodies such as RAD or ISTD, so it follows a graded system of training which are age/ability approrpriate for their level of progress. Ideally you need one which has a track record of getting its senior students into vocational training in either dance or MT.

QuirkyBrickSwan · 11/05/2025 11:54

Just posting to say, I too am in Surrey and find it an absolute minefield to work out the best way/ place to support the right kind of training! My daughter is 7 and performs but trying to work out the right dance school when I am completely clueless is challenging!! She currently attends a local one but I’m aware we might need to change at some stage as they don’t have kids in professional MT. My child is attending the conti camp at half term to try it out and we’ll go from there!

LovingGoldJoker · 12/05/2025 19:02

I’d be interested to hear how your daughter gets on at the Conti camp.

I don’t know how I would go about finding a dance class with a focus on technique rather than just passing exams. If I ask them surely they will all say of course we do!

There’s ballet in the village hall very close to us which would fit in very well with our current schedule. It teaches RAD up to grade 6 judging by their timetable. Maybe I’d need to ask about getting their students into vocational training beyond that but I’m presuming it would go higher than 6 if they had form for that.

I’ve emailed a couple of others dance schools but really need one not on Saturdays if she wants to stay in Stagecoach and that looks like it might be difficult.

I went down a rabbit hole looking at first stage dance audition requirements for the GSA musical theatre course - I now totally understand why we should be doing ballet 😁

OP posts:
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 12/05/2025 21:23

We're Surrey based but never found anything decent locally so just spent all weekend in London every week training there.

Spirit Young Performers and MX Masterclass are the best two. Spirit better for dance and they have a dance company as well as MT.

A lot depend on how serious you and your child are. It's an expensive 'hobby'. DD was very serious from a young age, did West End contracts, and while MT is no longer her main focus, she is heading for an adullt career in the music industry, so none of the training has been a waste.

It is a massive commitment for parent and child to do it at high level - so weigh up what you can realistically do in light of other children, finances etc. (Dance ends up incredibly expensive if they are doing multiple types and especially competition teams - happily DD spared me that!)

GU24Mum · 12/05/2025 22:05

We’re in Surrey too. We’ve done GSA and friends have done Italian Conti. Suspect both will potentially offer more than Stagecoaches as your daughter gets older. If you’re near IC, you must be vaguely near Woking : there are some good ballet schools (and some less good ones). Agree with a PP that they like the children to have a good grounding in ballet.

If your school doesn’t do music lessons, GSA does private ones or have you had a look at what Surrey Arts offers? Feel free to PM me if helpful.

Bunnycat101 · 22/05/2025 23:41

I think you need to really assess the quality of the training at your Stagecoach as they vary a lot but regardless the dance in particular is unlikely to be adequate.

I moved mine out of a 3 hour generic type set-up to more specialist teaching for drama and it was like light and day. The gap for dance is going to be even bigger.

taxi4ballet · 23/05/2025 17:34

LovingGoldJoker · 12/05/2025 19:02

I’d be interested to hear how your daughter gets on at the Conti camp.

I don’t know how I would go about finding a dance class with a focus on technique rather than just passing exams. If I ask them surely they will all say of course we do!

There’s ballet in the village hall very close to us which would fit in very well with our current schedule. It teaches RAD up to grade 6 judging by their timetable. Maybe I’d need to ask about getting their students into vocational training beyond that but I’m presuming it would go higher than 6 if they had form for that.

I’ve emailed a couple of others dance schools but really need one not on Saturdays if she wants to stay in Stagecoach and that looks like it might be difficult.

I went down a rabbit hole looking at first stage dance audition requirements for the GSA musical theatre course - I now totally understand why we should be doing ballet 😁

The ballet exams are marked on classical technique as well as performance.

You need to find a dance school that ideally goes up to RAD grade 8 (or ISTD grade 6 as the grade boundaries are different) and the vocational grades as well - Inter foundation, Intermediate, Advanced foundation and if you are really lucky, Adv 1 and Adv 2 although schools that teach Adv 2 are very thin on the ground. Pointework is included in the vocational grades but not the recreational ones.

More often than not, dance schools timetable the higher grade classes for senior students on weekday evenings, and the younger age groups in the afternoons after school and on Saturdays.

taxi4ballet · 23/05/2025 17:41

@LovingGoldJoker If you are happy to message me a rough idea of the area you live in and the distance you are prepared to travel, I could do some digging and find some dance schools to suggest if you like.

It is a minefield if you don't know what it is you need to look for.

Otherwise, you could go on the 'Doing Dance' section of Balletcoforum.com and ask on there.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page