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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

How to help a young performer progress?

30 replies

CandlesInTeacups · 21/10/2024 21:49

Young Actor Agent Advice UK

Hello 👋🏻

I have a son who is a very enthusiastic performer and would like to progress further in theatre. He is 9 years old, attends graded dancing classes and singing classes and an additional 3 hours a week at a theatre academy. Many of his academy alumni have gone on to full time stage schools and/or West End contracts so he is keen to push himself further.

He has taken part in many small scale theatre shows and recently has attended larger scale auditions, as such with this world so far has one current recall. Rather than me trying to catch opportunities for him by myself, I wanted to start reaching out to some agencies who might be willing to audition new talent and if successful take him on. There are so many out there and my priority is his wellbeing but also to nurture his love of performance and his wish to progress. My questions are:

  • what am I looking for when looking at casting/talent agencies?
  • does anyone recommend anywhere in particular?
  • is there anything I should be aware of as a red flag when speaking with agencies?

All advice appreciated, many thanks for your time 💜🩵🩷

OP posts:
redtrain123 · 21/10/2024 21:51

All I know is that, if they ask for money upfront, then run a mile.

Did you see the open casting for the new Harry Potter series? (Not sure if it’s too late now).

Maybe Google young stars you admire, and see who they are represented by?

LIZS · 21/10/2024 22:14

Is Not a Pushy Mum still going? Maybe look at the productions he might be interested in and see who represents the kids cast. Some stage schools and casting directors run short courses in performance and audition technique,

sunflowerdaisyrose · 21/10/2024 23:18

Are you South based? For acting/musical theatre try Sylvia Young, Daisy & Dukes, Bruce & Brown, Seaside Kids, Hero, Sally King, Brown & Mills. They are some reputable agencies I can think of offhand.

I find this group helpful on Facebook: parents of child models and actors Uk but might be invite only now so see if you have any friends in it!

It is normal for talent (as opposed to model) agencies to take an annual fee of between £40-£100 plus you'll have to pay Spotlight fees of around £11 a month and most agents want professional headshots annually (but not to apply). Good luck!

Jobs are hard to get but mine get the occasional one (not professional theatre yet though!) and have fun, we don't put in as much effort as some as want to keep it enjoyable and low pressure.

TheatreTaxi · 22/10/2024 12:40

@CandlesInTeacups, is your DS mainly interested in musical theatre, or does he want to audition for TV/film/commercials as well?

If his main focus is musical theatre, most children's MT auditions go out to open call, and it's relatively easy to be seen without an agent. Jessica Ronane, Debbie O'Brien and Verity Naughton are the casting directors most commonly involved in casting MT shows involving children. Jessica has a mailing list you can sign up to, and the others put open calls out on social media.

You usually need to live within the M25 for London-based shows (though there is often more flexibility on this for boys because they are in scarcer supply). Even touring productions and shows based in regional centres such as the Chichester Festival Theatre usually rehearse in London. There are opportunities for children's MT in the north (Leeds, Manchester, etc), but I'm less familiar with the northern circuit as we are London-based.

There are relatively few professional theatre opportunities for straight acting (i.e. not MT) available for children. While the state of screen acting is pretty dire at the moment (ongoing impact of COVID plus the SAG-AFTRA and writers' strokes in the US), I'd say that under-10s are the age group where there is more work available for juvenile actors (though that's not saying a great deal in the current climate!). If your DS is interested in auditioning for professional work more generally, I'd recommend looking at the agencies who belong to the Agents of Young Performers Association. Some agencies cover modelling/stills work as well as stage and screen - I'd avoid those that do unless your DS is genuinely interested in modelling work, as it's a very different side to the industry. As others have said, you should never be charged a fee to join an acting agency. You will need to join Spotlight, the main casting database, as most reputable stage and screen (and some MT) work goes via Spotlight. Children can't join Spotlight unless represented by an agency.

You don't need professional headshots to apply to an agency. A pair of clear head-and-shoulders shots (one smiling and one serious) in good natural lighting and in plain unbranded clothing is absolutely fine. If you are taken on by an agency and need professional headshots, there are plenty of good reasonably-priced options, and I'd be wary of any agency that insists you have to pay ££££ for their preferred photographer.

Worth being aware that there are down sides to having an agent. An agent will submit a child for any work they fit the brief for, regardless if it's work your child (or you) are interested in being involved in. Turning down auditions is the fastest way to annoy an agent - it is in their interests to have clients audition for as many jobs as possible in the hope of securing a job the agent can earn commission from. It means that you as a parent will have very little control over what work your child is submitted for, and very little leeway to turn down auditions without a cast-iron reason (serious illness, bereavement, public exams, age-inappropriate production content). While most first-round auditions are via self-tape these days, commercial work is still often held in-person and at notoriously short notice, so having a job and family set-up that is flexible enough to enable last-minute travel to castings is important.

Good luck to your DS. My own DS was 9 when he started performing professionally - he's an adult now and still acting, and has had some amazing adventures and met some wonderful people along the way.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 22/10/2024 14:24

Everything @TheatreTaxi says.

Would add... with regards to full time stage schools.
Be very careful with this if you are thinking seriously about it.

It can look like a fantastic idea at 11 if they are booking WE shows and doing a lot of auditions, and you think hooray I can stop propping up stage doors and trawling round London to recalls etc.

But, children have a limited lifespan and from 5ft or age 13 you are basically finished for theatre, and frankly for screen too.

We looked at all the vocational schools and know lots of the students at them. Most are doing significant extra classes on top, you don't get the 1-2-1 singing so that needs to be in addition, and you are looking at reduced GCSE options and no sport. The exception would be White Lodge for those serious about ballet.

If you are based anywhere near London (or most big cities) then you can handpick the teachers you want for individual classes and there are lots of weekend MT/dance options.

For agents, you will need photos (as detailed above) and a tape of a verse and chorus of a song plus a short monologue or poem. You can film these on a smart-phone against a blank wall (head and shoulders, landscape). AYPA would be the place to look for agents. You should only need to pay spotlight and headshot fees - we've never had to pay admin or anything like that.

Most importantly, can you manage things if your child is successful? I know families who haven't had holidays in 5 years because you can't go away when they're under contract. Do you have a flexible job where you can drop everything to be at an audition the next day (and potentially 2 or 3 days in a single week).

CandlesInTeacups · 22/10/2024 17:26

Hi @sunflowerdaisyrose that is super helpful advice. Yes, south based: one of the agencies you mentioned - Seaside Kids I have been in contact with already and need to get some tapes together to send into them. They were very responsive unlike others.

OP posts:
CandlesInTeacups · 22/10/2024 17:29

@TheatreTaxi how lovely for your son! It’s such a female heavy industry I think it’s so nice when the young male performers pursue this and love it. My son is the only boy in his dance school classes but loves every minute, I was so happy when he joined his theatre academy as there are lots of teenage boys who are really so good, it has been inspiring for him.

All very helpful advice thank you, and yes we are south based - 1 hour 20 from central London. He has no interest in modelling, theatre seems to be his passion - his strongest point is definitely his singing but he’s good at acting too, he has one current recall for a TV show which is acting.

OP posts:
Needanadultgapyear · 23/10/2024 16:02

@CandlesInTeacups I was a single parent in a full time job with on call so there was no way I could put my DD with an agent.
She did classes and local theatre and auditioned for BYMT and was in a couple of productions including a lead.
She got into a really well respected MT sixth form and from there to Italia Conti and she is just about to graduate. Staff think she should have a good career she is a less common casting type, good singer in legit, standard broadway and contemporary. Highly skilled tap and Jazz dancer skilled ballet, contemporary and commercial.
Getting strong foundations locally can still lead to a good career.

CatatonicLadybug · 23/10/2024 16:24

Lots of good advice here already.

A couple clarifications to things above - Not a Pushy Mum isn’t really around any longer, but there is the FB group mentioned above as well as one called Kids Casting Calls UK and another called Who Got the Job. The first does the same sort of thing as the group already mentioned but I don’t think it’s invite only. You will scroll past a heap of ‘are these pictures any good for applying?’ and ‘is xyz agency better than abc agency?’ posts but I feel they are useful for two reasons - the occasional heads up on a casting (esp if you’re starting out and not represented) and warnings of the unfortunate individuals who try to weasel their way into the industry with nefarious intention. Sometimes it takes a village to keep kids safe, and I do not want to scaremonger because almost everyone who works with the kids is brilliant, but it would be naive to say there aren’t creeps and these groups have helped me keep my DS safe in some specific instances so I scroll through the rest of the stuff a couple times a week. The ‘who got the job’ group is less necessary but it can help if you’re the type who struggles to tape and forget and will feel more closure knowing someone else has had their recall or contract and you can move on. I think that one is down to personality type!

Harry Potter open call (no agent needed) is still open till Halloween.

Spotlight fees are normal (and you pay Spotlight directly so there shouldn’t be a way for your agent to mark that up) but fees in a talent agency are definitely not the norm. I know of a few that do some sort of <£50 a year admin fee but more that don’t. I’ve never paid to be with an agency - they make their money when the kid gets the job!

AYPA is where to start if you don’t have an agency you already know through anywhere your DS trains. As it goes, we have been with two different agencies over the years through two different dance/theatre schools, and there are definitely pros and cons to taking that option for representation. On the positive, they cannot forget about you if you are always around (many children never even meet their agents in person and mine sees his an average of four days a week) and if your kid is really dedicated and working hard and making progress, the agent will then see that and believe in the child accordingly. They are very aware of their abilities so tend to apply to the right briefs. If your child has very specific goals, they should be willing to sit down and work out a training plan to give them the best shot at getting that role. However, a less than honest business might then use that as a way to just get you to sign up for more and more and more. If you feel like they are seeing pound signs more than your child’s best interests, then something is wrong. Also if a training place has a agency but no one from the agency seems to be getting work, I’d look elsewhere. Sometimes they really take on more than they can manage or they have so many children on their books from a franchised stage school that they can’t treat anyone like an individual.

Other red flags: any agent that says they need a portfolio (they don’t, and this is total scam vocabulary), any agent that tells you to only train with xyz programme, any agent who locks you into a specific and expensive photographer; any agent who tells you anyone can take the pictures for Spotlight (it’s a pretty specific brief and the average pro family photographer won’t know what’s needed), any agent who is incredibly vague (most kid parts in London are ongoing - they should be able to tell you whether they would put him up for Fagin’s Gang or a classmate in Matilda, etc), anyone who immediately suggests you go on a £200 one day course or something similarly salesy, anyone who wants to speak to your child on Zoom without you in the room. But none of the AYPA agents are going to do any of those things.

Heads up that when they get a job, you’re still paying for their training even though they will miss alternating weeks of any group lessons. But if he’s doing grades, stopping the lessons during the contract would mean falling behind a group around exam time. We end up paying for a few private lessons leading up to the exam to pick up anything problematic from all the missed classes.

At an hour and twenty from London, it will be worth your effort to go through with Citymapper or similar and work out your best travel times to get to all the major theatres. The hour door to door concept is often thought of a sanity measure for kids getting home after a show, but once you’re on a contract that hour is about how quickly you can get to the theatre in an emergency. You’re basically on call any day there is a show and the cast call time will be maybe 90 minutes before the show starts (less if there’s not much in the way of costume and make up) and kids are kids, so sometimes you take them to the door all fine and dandy, they go in, and ten minutes later they turn green and are in no state to perform. There will then be a second kid already there as the standby on most shows, but they will immediately call another kid to come in as the standby because starting the show with no back up plan is asking for a trouble - that’s when someone falls off the scenery or the thing that sent the first kid home is contagious or whatever. So you need to be within that hour so you can get there if called. Not being able to make it is a deal breaker. You’ll be able to fudge a few minutes but if in reality it would take you an hour and forty from emergency call to the door, you’re really going to want luck on your side. (Plus your kid will be shattered when they get home at midnight and still have to be in school on time the next day. They don’t get to sleep late to recover like the adult cast!)

Yes to considering how flexible you can be, because I do not know how people manage this with traditional jobs. I work freelance and basically spend a huge amount of time in libraries and coffee shops with an iPad, and my clients have no idea. If I had a 9-5 job this week, I would only have had Monday without a conflict where I needed to usher my kid from school to theatre, and I just don’t know how I could do that. Even freelance I reduced the amount of jobs I agreed to because I lose the work hours of the commute, standing outside a theatre, running lines, or recording tapes.

It really changes a family dynamic and you need to be sure that’s okay with all of you. My DH leaves early for the office so he’s asleep when we get home after a show and we are ships passing in the night. We have dinner as a family on the day the theatre is closed rather than most nights. If there are siblings, make sure they don’t feel ignored. We’ve only had Christmas Day itself off for the last few years in terms of leaving London. But admittedly that is West End theatre and screen work is very, very different in terms of the timing, as it might be intense for six weeks and then you’re mostly done and you wait ages for the show or movie to finish production.

If all of that still sounds worthwhile, then follow advice above and take still photos and a video with introduction, monologue/poem, and a song, and send in to the AYPA agencies and/or continue your discussion with Seaside. Confident boys who can sing and/or dance as well as act will get representation without problem. The West End currently skews boy heavy with Oliver opening, and there are always fewer boys in the running than girls. You’ll find a good agent and don’t need to look anywhere iffy! Two biggest things people overlook when taking the home photos and video: get them about a foot or so in front of the background wall, not right on it. You need some space behind them to avoid troublesome shadows. And match their eye level. You can’t stand at your adult height and angle the camera down to their height - it needs to be held with the lens eleven with their eyes, and they need to look naturally forward, not tilted up or down to the camera. Try your best to do this in the daytime with natural light if at all possible!

If your kid absolutely loves this life and still loves the idea even if you might go to endless auditions and record hundreds of tapes to never actually get a contract, then it is worth all the upheaval to give them this shot at living their best life. I haven’t been on holiday in years and I’m never home enough to keep my house tidy, but I have no regrets because he gets to do something amazing that he 100% made happen through that combination of talent and hard work. If he didn’t love it or he wasn’t dedicated, I don’t think I could do it, but he runs and I just try to keep up!

All the very best of luck to your DS!

TheatreTaxi · 23/10/2024 17:44

Great advice form Crumbs and Ladybug.

To add to this, your DS will need a child performance licence for any job he books where is being paid and/or missing school. Performance licences go through your local council and the speed of granting licences varies enormously across the country. Some can do a super-fast turnaround of 24 hours (sometimes vital for commercials), while others are glacially slow. As part of a performance licence, you will need a letter of permission from school, so if you don't have a sense already of whether your DS's school would be supportive, it may be worth sounding them out in general terms now rather than waiting until an exciting job offer is on the table.

Matilda has just put out a call on social media specifically looking for boys to audition - so if your DS hasn't auditioned for Matilda before and meets the height requirements, that might be a good one to try. Matilda is a bit of a baptism of fire as a first MT job (can speak from experience there!) but is an amazing show to be part of - and everything else after that seems like a breeze in comparison!

Re Facebook groups, I've known some agents to be antsy about parents belonging to social media groups. Personally, that's an agent red flag for me, because those groups can be really helpful sources of information and advice about the industry, especially when just starting out - and if nothing else, it provides a place to ask questions without pestering your agent. As long as you don't share confidential casting information, there shouldn't be any reason for an agent to object to a parent being part of a FB group of parents supporting each other.

CandlesInTeacups · 24/10/2024 09:53

@Needanadultgapyear absolutely, I agree with that. It sounds as if you went above and beyond to facilitate the training for your child there and it paid off 🩵🩷

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CandlesInTeacups · 24/10/2024 10:13

@CatatonicLadybug thank you so much for taking the time to write in such detail and such useful and experienced info.

the agent info you’ve given is super helpful. I’ve spoken to a few already, Sally King Agency was very responsive and books are open however she says they are more TV based which my son isn’t averse to however his passion really lies in theatre. Seaside Kids also were very responsive and have requested some tapes, and I had an automated response for books open for boys in musical theatre and taping info for Scarlett and co which seems like a relatively new agency, does anyone know of it? I have also contacted South Coast Kidz which I haven’t had a response from but they are local (25 mins from here) so keeping in mind your point about agents getting to know kids. Has anyone had any experience with any of these agencies?

in regards to the schedule, I can see how gruelling it is, and last minute. I am a nurse and work 2 shifts a week, I mostly do nights anyway so I’m available for the kids. I’ve just adjusted to being awake for 30 hours at a time as was the case for the Matilda audition invite 2 days before. I wasnt sure if we should go because of the 1 hour limit however a close friend got to the finals of Matilda auditions and was told living the extra 20 mins wouldn’t be a problem if they were willing to commit. He actually just did the Matilda the Musical audition last week and didn’t get a recall this time, he was there for just over 3 hours and she had said there were 2000 initial applicants, he came out desperate to try again or do more auditions at that level. Obviously there’s no feedback as to what it was that let him down, there were other young lads brought back to their parents over the morning before he was returned so at some point something must have let him down. He also sent off for HP and we had a call and email requesting a further tape and script. Funnily enough he wasn’t as happy with that because he wants to be in theatre!

@TheatreTaxi good idea re the school, our kids recently changed school and when we looked around DS was telling the head about his commitments and performing, she seemed supportive at that point so I will gauge further.

Thanks again to all for such helpful insight.

OP posts:
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 24/10/2024 10:24

Sally King definitely not known for theatre - more extras for films.

Scarlett & Co have had kids in WE shows so definitely know how that works.

I would take a look at PTC Management, Ardent, Byrons, Stagebox (only if you are interested in their training) as well.

Definitely check schools are on board and reasonably enthusiastic. It helps a lot! We had an arrangement with primary that we wouldn't do TVCs in term time and so only needed time off for auditions/work for film/tv and MT.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 24/10/2024 10:33

Feedback - this is generally non existent. You will only get that from teachers or agent - if you do get it from production it will be generic and positive and not actually helpful.

If they are getting recalls, or to final rounds then they are doing everything right. Often who is cast is down to really odd things like height, hair colour, fit with existing or other team and not necessarily who is the best actor/singer/dancer. Nothing you can do about that at all.

CandlesInTeacups · 24/10/2024 10:41

Thanks @OhCrumbsWhereNow agsin, so helpful. In regards to the agencies that require training I’m not sure that’s something I want to commit to on top of what he’s already doing ( 2 x dance classes, 1 x singing and 3 hours a week of British Theatre Academy) plus a view to make time for auditions. It’s a minefield really! 🤔

OP posts:
Attelina · 24/10/2024 10:43

If you can find KatyMac on here she will have lots of great advice.

CatatonicLadybug · 24/10/2024 14:57

PTC had a call out for musical boys recently and would be worth a look. We are not with them but have worked with kids who are and their mums were happy and the kids were working so that is all positive.

Agree Sally King isn’t the right fit for you. I haven’t been with any of the others you mention but also don’t have any alarm bells with them.

Not a specific endorsement for Stagebox (we haven’t trained with them and friends’ reviews vary) but just to put an idea in your mind… there are next steps from BTA. They can be absolutely brilliant and get lots of kids bitten by the theatre bug and I think they 100% have a great place in the pyramid of what the industry needs. But if he wants to do West End, he is likely going to need more challenging and demanding training that really moves him along at a brisk pace. I’m not saying pull him out right this second or anything, but I would start looking at your options and seeing what will suit him. 30 minutes of 1:1 coaching often gives better results than 3 hours in a group, and smaller groups work faster than bigger groups, and groups where everyone has been auditioned to be a similar level will progress more quickly than a mixed ability group who are just all the same age band. If they are the best kid in the class, it will be hard to get better without a teacher who has a very strong insight for that.

Hopefully that comes across as intended, as I don’t want to dismiss anyone’s work, but when I look at the progress of my DS versus his peers a lot of it is training. Always be learning because others with the same goals are definitely out there learning.

Also well done to him for the Matilda audition - it is famously one of the most gruelling processes in the kid side of the business. It shows because that company runs like a well oiled machine with a cast of kids! They do have thousands of applications every year and he has done very well to be seen in person!

You will basically never get feedback from an audition (there is the very, very rare time when you’ll get something like ‘can we see you again in 6 months?’ which is code for train more and eat well - we need you taller and stronger!) and this is why a 1:1 coach is golden. It’s all the feedback all the time, and they work alongside you to help you know your child’s strengths and weaknesses and build to a better result each time.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 24/10/2024 15:12

Agree with all of this.

DD started off with local training and then moved to audition entry MT training at 8.

Check out places like Spirit Young Performers, Stagebox, MXM etc.

CandlesInTeacups · 24/10/2024 16:16

Hi @CatatonicLadybug thanks again for suuuuuch helpful ideas here. When you say 1:1 do you mean for drama or for musical theatre or what? Funnily enough after the Matilda audition DS felt his dancing was what let him down at the time and has since asked for 1:1 dancing which will start after half term once a week in addition to the other bits.

have any of you been at Stagebox? I get a lot of ads come up on my algorithm for them, I had assumed they are “same but different” as BTA where he attends now, which is also audition only?

OP posts:
CatatonicLadybug · 24/10/2024 19:04

1:1 can work in any of the disciplines. As it goes, my DS does 1:1 with his singing teacher and his acting coach weekly and then dance we just book as and when as our studio doesn’t offer that on a standing basis. (Some do though!)

Stagebox is very different to BTA. They are looking for the cream of the crop where BTA will audition to suit their next project but they are by and large inclusive of a range of skill sets. Hence why I think BTA are needed - it would be like saying only children destined for the Olympic team should carry on with their sport and anyone wanting to do it for other reasons isn’t valid. Definitely not the case. But here you are the parent of the kid who has a shot on the Olympic team, basically.

Stagebox will require tenacity and resilience, as the industry will in general. Some people join and then feel it’s unfair to be in the background and not in a featured role despite great talent. But everyone there will have great talent and it takes time to prove yourself really. If they are learning and improving, then stick with it and encourage the attitude that there are no small parts. They have kids with impressive CVs already and are justifiably proud of them and those kids have proven themselves reliable, so it makes sense they will be featured. But this is 100% my take from listening to the experience of friends. We have never personally trained with them.

Their social media is very glossy and once you’ve had a look at their account, it will keep popping up via the algorithm, so do also check out the places mentioned by Crumbs above. Perform like a Pro and Front & Centre might also be worth a look for you. The latter focuses on taking West End teachers to places outside London so they might have one close to you or they might not at all.

Matilda dance is INTENSE. They used to suggest grade 4 level dancers to audition - that has disappeared from the info but the choreo has not changed. They have long done the same two numbers in early rounds, but people have caught onto this and at least one stage school offered a prep class recently to teach them the routines before the audition. I find that a very bold move and I would not be surprised if changes appear in the audition because it is important for them to see how quickly the kids learn in the room. But you can find those two numbers online to watch and could work on learning styles that are similar without just trying to learn it ahead of the day. One is more a street style meets MT and the other is more classic MT jazz, so they are seeing two styles on the same day. I would guess his assessment is right as the dance work is hard and fast and throws a lot of kids, but they need a way to take it from thousands to a few dozen quickly so you can see the logic of not babying them along the way.

CandlesInTeacups · 24/10/2024 20:54

@CatatonicLadybug thats interesting to know re Matilda yes he’s definitely not at that ability, and he knew it. Front & Centre looks good, there’s no way to contact them on the website though and it doesn’t tell you the locations?!

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CandlesInTeacups · 24/10/2024 21:00

@CatatonicLadybug ignore that, I’ve found the locations… nowhere near us 😂

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CatatonicLadybug · 24/10/2024 21:12

Ha ha! Never mind them then - keep an eye on them as they do an interesting summer week in London and it’s open to kids who don’t train with them the rest of the year.

Hopefully another option looks like a good commute!

CandlesInTeacups · 24/10/2024 21:19

@CatatonicLadybug London would be easily achievable, that sounds good. The other one you sent looks more dance based? Maybe we should look into Stagebox, that’s London too tho…

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CatatonicLadybug · 26/10/2024 11:37

Yes, Perform like a Pro is dance based so may not be what you need right now. A good one to just have on your radar as he progresses.

Unfortunately it’s a very London-centric industry, so that’s where the training is. There are a few good studios dotted about the suburbs but most of the kids working are doing their grades with a studio near their home and then travelling in at the weekend for programmes that hire space in places like Pineapple, DanceWorks, The Manor, etc. At least you get used to the commute to the theatre? Small silver lining. 🙈 Make sure to get your DS a zip card so he’s free and easy to travel if you’re far enough out that he doesn’t have one already. (Handy for auditions anyway!)

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