Autumn / Winter 24 - music thread

[northerngoldilocks]

Feels like time for a new thread for the new school year!

Come and talk about music lessons, choosing instruments, exams, auditions, specialist schools, orchestras or whatever other music activities are going on. Everyone is welcome, from those with total beginners to those whose children are studying music at advanced levels. Ask for advice or share successes or struggles.

She had previously had a col legno 3/4 size CF bow and so wanted to check that in a full sized bow and then test a few others to see if she liked them more or less than the full sized version of the one she was used to. Think that was the cheapest of the ones she tried and I can't recall exactly how i ended up with the Col Legno one - think it was just a reasonable price on stringzone initially and so kept that as the 'control' version.

I got her to try 3 CF as she was used to it and they're supposed to be less easy to break so was quite keen given she's still young. Also apparently you get a better standard bow for the money - but some people don't love them so personal preference. I set a limit of around £400 i think on the basis that it seemed a reasonable price - probably not really enough based on the price of her violin, but I figured it would be enough for now and a reasonable spare longer term if she continues. I asked Caswells to choose a suitable wooden bow in the similar price bracket for comparison. In the end it came down to the CF one she chose (think it was a Codabow Prodigy) and the wooden one but the CF one had the edge.

Basically think that you can agonise over these things but honestly she's not wished she made a different choice since.

There is a cello room( I have a viola and a violin player) Cecile who ran it has just retired and it’s been taken over by her son and some of the luthiers. If you phone them and ask they are always really helpful and I’m sure would say if they cannot help. When we’ve been I’ve given them a price range and they put out a selection of bows to try in your price bracket. They don’t tell you which is which until
you have a shortlist.

We were told about 1/3 of the price of the instrument

Just to second how fab Cardiff Violins are. Really friendly and helpful.

We’ve bought a cello and now from Cardiff Violins, and had cello repairs and bow repairs done there too.
Not the cheapest string shop, it’s fair to say, but very helpful and lots of choice across a wide price range from beginners to professional level instruments.

bow

A question for French horn / brass parents. Do you know whether there are any downsides (eg embouchure) to a young French horn player having a trumpet to play for fun? My 10 yr old has discovered there are cross overs with the fingering and she can pick up a trumpet and play it. She’s asked for (a cheap eBay) one for Xmas. Her French horn teacher doesn’t seem fussed beyond saying she’s not to fall in love with it over her horn 😂. She’s going to secondary school next year and I can see some upsides to have a passing ability at the trumpet because she could join some of the jazz groups she wouldn’t be able to play with on the horn. But she plays her horn quite seriously (for a 10 yr old) so I don’t want to mess that up

No personal experience but we know DC playing both instruments at a high level. IIRC they started second instrument around 10yo so about your DD's age and were allowed to continue by their teachers and music schools.

Embouchure will need some adjustments (prob some guidance from a trumpet teacher?) but apparently it's doable, even in the long run.

Trumpets are dangerous though, she might fall in love with it! 😁

Thanks for explaining your thought process re choosing a new bow for your DD. You mentioned Caswell's, which I've not heard of before and have just looked up. I see they're based in Oxford. My DS2's teacher mentioned Oxford Violins as being a good place to go. Have you any experience of Oxford Violins?

Having a blind test of bows sounds like a great idea!

That's really good to know, thank you. I'm going to find some time to go there after the craziness of X'mas is over!

@MockCroc I’m a horn player (went to conservatoire though not a professional now). I probably wouldn’t recommend this long term if she wants to prioritise her horn playing…but she might not!

Trumpet is easier and as you say fingering is similar, so it is very easy for a horn player to pick up a trumpet and have a tootle, and if she’s a good horn player she’d almost certainly make really fast progress on trumpet, but her horn playing might suffer. Embouchure is slightly different, but more importantly the notes on the harmonic series are much further apart on trumpet, which is why pitching is easier, and I think it would be confusing to switch between them. They aren’t doubling instruments - people don’t tend to play both, in the way that you don’t get people playing violin and cello, or oboe and bassoon.

Saying that, she is 10! So who’s to say that she might not be better suited to trumpet? Absolutely no harm in having a go on both - she will probably end up naturally gravitating to one over the other.

Thank you - that’s really helpful. I’m a string player so know nothing about this stuff. She adores her horn and I don’t want to confuse her so we might give the trumpet a miss this year then.

@MockCroc maybe talk to her teacher a bit more about it? If she’s really keen to give it a go then I don’t think would be too much of a problem in the short term - I think she would soon get a feel for which she prefers. One or other will feel more comfortable on her face, and she will likely prefer the sound and the role they play in ensembles of one over the other.

I guess my point is that she is very unlikely to be able to or want reach an equivalent level on both because they are so similar but also different (like violin and cello as opposed to say violin and viola I guess).

I’m biased obviously but there is much less competition on horn generally so she will likely end up with many more opportunities, but it’s hard, expensive to buy. Trumpet is more versatile so she can do jazz, swing bands etc, it’s cheaper, but it’s more competitive and has a less interesting role in the orchestra. Pros and cons.

Also - no reason she couldn’t join a school jazz group on the horn…she could just double the sax part and use it as an opportunity to work on her transposition!

Thanks 🤩
I’ll have a chat with her teacher. I think she just fancies the novelty of being able to play another instrument straight off. She loves her horn - she massively identifies as a “horn girl” - and goes to a JD with that as her first study so I don’t think she will be swayed by the trumpet except for a bit of fun.

And i hadn’t thought about jazz French horn as a possibility but actually that sounds fun!

DD plays trumpet in many groups, including JD, schools and national orchestras, also jazz and brass bands, summer schools - tbh I can't remember a horn player doubling in jazz... Not because it's impossible but there are usually plenty of trumpets and saxes available.

@Ubertomusic obviously it’s not part of the standard line up but I would expect a secondary school jazz band to be a bit more flexible and inclusive.

I played in all sorts as a teen - jazz band, brass band, even a spot of Irish traditional! Hope she carries on enjoying it @MockCroc

Yes, probably depends on the school. DD's school had a very good horn player and average to good standard saxes, but there were lots of them and the horn was not in a jazz group, probably as a result of "surplus supply".
In secondary I guess there are even more trumpets and saxes. Horn numbers remain roughly the same or shrink as far as I can see - some horns drop out as it is more difficult indeed.

Also, the horn is the best instrument 😂

interesting to hear. Dd2 has come home for the hols (hooray) with an alto saxophone. She is already having to work hard to keep her embouchure working ok for flute and bassoon to both teachers’ satisfaction so I’m worried the sax will create extra confusion- but then she’ll likely need to be able to play sax. Currently just totally weirded out by the feeling of single reed compared with double.

nice to have her back though!

@Ubertomusic maybe the horn player at your child’s school just didn’t want to play in the jazz group 🤷🏼‍♀️?!

In my experience, as a horn player, you usually get welcomed into things with open arms - it’s one of the great things about playing it. Totally agreed @Siriusmuggle!

@Compsearch I may be biased as the mum of a horn player 🤣

@Siriusmuggle there is a fair bit of bias in my opinion too 🤣

Probably just revealing of my personality but I liked playing a rarer instrument and being sought after. Whereas there are always plenty of eg trumpeters.

I tried to steer DS towards viola for this reason but of course he’s chosen violin - it has to be what you love as well.

@Compsearch - always time for viola later!