Autumn / Winter 24 - music thread

[northerngoldilocks]

Feels like time for a new thread for the new school year!

Come and talk about music lessons, choosing instruments, exams, auditions, specialist schools, orchestras or whatever other music activities are going on. Everyone is welcome, from those with total beginners to those whose children are studying music at advanced levels. Ask for advice or share successes or struggles.

@mustardrarebit do let me know if you want more general 'music boarding' advice though - I'm getting good at packing, if nothing else. She must be SO excited (but what about your travel plans?)

and thanks @se22mother and @Alwaysplayspicc - it's an honorary scholarship (because she has MDS funding already) based on English and History papers and a 'Thinking Skills Paper' where she wrote on 'Does Music Matter?

She had a fabulous time doing the scholarship day, but we weren't expecting her to get it - it will be helpful for her to have the extension stuff on offer though if she decides it is uni not conservatoire she wants to aim at (or both!).

Congratulations to @minisnowballs too!

Ah @mustardrarebit how exciting for you all!

@minisnowballs well done to your DD - that’s fantastic! Really great that they have recognised her academic talents too, and that she has time to fit it all in.

Fwiw I would recommend the Oxbridge+conservatoire postgrad route, especially for a bright wind player (because you can get by with less practice than is required for strings/piano) as a way of keeping max options open and getting amazing performance opportunities, if the academics appeal to her (not necessary to do music either, though if she does want to do music she’s right to be working on her keyboard skills!). Feel free to DM if you ever want - I’ve got so many friends in the profession who did this and worked out really well for them.

@Compsearchthanks! not sure if she does have time, but I think with A-Levels it will be easier than GCSEs actually, free periods etc and only three subjects. She's a pretty quick worker, which helps.

Oxbridge plus conservatoire postgrad is pretty much what she's hoping for, but probably doesn't say that often because it sounds presumptuous I think, but school seemed pro supporting her in that.

Her dad and I are both oxbridge (one from each) so I guess she doesn't think it is unachievable - after all we aren't geniuses!

I'm a bit worried re keyboard skills if it is music she wants but she should be grade 5 or 6 standard by then, she can play at Grade 5 now, and the school have recommended she goes to harmony classes from next term. Might that be enough to apply at least?

Also, my goodness, the debt she'd be by at the end!!

@minisnowballs I can’t remember the keyboard requirements specifically- will be on the faculty website but each college will have their own requirements too. I think back in my day grade 6 was what they asked for (standard, not necessary to have taken exams).

There is (or at least was) a compulsory keyboard skills paper in 1st year (at Cambridge, no idea re Oxford), but after that you can ditch it. You do need a good knowledge of harmony though, for the course as a whole, which tends to be easier for pianists. She should jump at the chance of working on this separately, and maybe look at the ABRSM advanced theory papers. Saying that there are/were plenty of people on the music course (singers mainly!) who weren’t the most academic musicians and did fine. I do think having got a choral scholarship before their academic apps were considered was probably helpful there mind you.

I thought about this hard at her stage and was similarly challenged on the keyboard front - managed to get to grade 6 after a year of lessons and did my grade 8 theory in preparation. In the end I realised that I loved performing but not really academic music (and was better at English and History than academic music) so I did one of those instead and had a ball.

Id recommend Cambridge over Oxford btw - they have an instrumental award (chamber music) scheme which Oxford doesn’t, and more student orchestras.

I'm so impressed by all your high achieving kids. You must be super proud, @mustardrarebit @minisnowballs.

I went to look around our local Fancy Independent School at the weekend with DD, because she wants to be a chorister. The plan was to get her comfortable in the space before she meets with the head of music for a pre-audition this week, but that's just been rescheduled for January! The proper auditions are only a week later. We'll have to decide whether to apply before she's done any singing for them, so without an opportunity for me to quietly ask whether she's actually got any singing ability or chance of passing the voice trial. It's all feeling a bit difficult.

No idea about beds at Chet's @mustardrarebit but DD is a day pupil in prep (so roughly your DD's age) at a specialist school and I'd say it would be worth buying her a programmable watch to help remember all lessons/rehearsals/places to go etc. I'm a reasonably well organised adult but I find their timetables overwhelming sometimes and I cannot imagine how even older boarders manage. In prep, they are chaperoned to music lessons by assistants, but even the assistants sometimes forget to pick them up.

Just as an example - DD's individual music lessons on one instrument were rescheduled to different days or weeks four times this term (and you need to remember when to bring which instrument to school), on her second instrument lesson time changed at a short notice a couple of times, DD was booked in to play a solo in a concert at a short notice and just yesterday she said she would be playing another solo on Tuesday but wasn't too sure which piece 🤦‍♀️ It's a lot of constant changes to handle, you would need to be on top of academic/music/sport timetables and emails, even if remotely.

This teaches them time management skills and it's great, but for younger children might be tricky initially as they're not mature enough yet.

DD doesn't take her phone to school and devices may be banned depending on the school anyway, but reminders on the watch may help and watches are less addictive.

@TreeAtMyWindow - did she like it? i reckon you've got nothing to lose by going for it if she wants it. Our experience with both our girls is that unless you go for stuff you won't find out what you're good at - so we encourage them to try things even if we think they might well not get them.

So while it may sound from this thread like DD2 gets everything, she in fact failed to get a perfectly ordinary music place at one of our local secondary comps, or a place in the superselective grammar (though she was untutored, so that may have been our fault to be fair).

Not getting stuff sometimes breaks the spell - the world doesn't fall in, you move on and next time you're less scared to try - at least that's the theory. I actually find it terrifying, as I'm scared of failure myself, but now the children aren't.

And of course she may well get straight in! And then as long as that works for you that's brilliant. Win win!

Congrats on your DD's academic scholarship @minisnowballs ! I think their aim to develop more rounded musicians who may also be good at sports or academics is very healthy and realistic as it keeps the options open.

My DD certainly values her gold at maths challenge more than her solo opportunities 😂

Congratulations to the mini @minisnowballs and mini @mustardrarebit - very exciting for both of them. My recollection of Chets was that they had an online system for quite a few things so might be worth finding out what tech it works on and getting her familiar with that if it isn't what she currently uses?

Thanks @Ubertomusic must admit I'm not thrilled by the 'no smartphone' stipulation - DD lives by hers and I'm not convinced that the music dept will get any more organised just because she isn't contactable during the day! Maybe Chet's is more organised @mustardrarebit - we find the sudden solo opportunities are a frequent feature...

Exciting times @mustardrarebit I assume the beds are comfy as my child seemed to have a hell of a job getting out of them in the morning! Both the head teachers are lovely too so she'll love it.

I don't know how they are going to manage the ban in seniors but it looks like many parents are very keen. I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this - they'll have to have devices as a tool in real live eventually, but it can easily become addictive and toxic, that's also real. DD is still young but wants to board at some point so we'll need to figure out how to manage assignments.

@Ubertomusic fortunately DD2 will only have two terms of it as Sixth Form are unaffected. But a smartphone is a useful tool for a musician - metronome, tuner, youtube device, backing track provider, recording device (she did her recent national youth choir audition on her phone at school). I know it's the way the wind is blowing opinion-wise, but some of these kids are leading very complex lives and using their phones to manage them!

Yes exactly @minisnowballs - even in prep DD needs her phone in school sometimes for her practice with a backing track. It's all complicated indeed.

As a parent I was always against having phones at school. However dd (now aged 23) who was at dance school strongly feels that restricting the use of phones so much further serves to isolate your child from both you and the outside world. The little things (some of which may be a red flag) are then not communicated.

@minisnowballs I think she's thinking in terms of it being worth the sacrifice of going to the school in order to be a chorister, rather than it being an upgrade. She was slightly put off by the idea of having to do 4 1/2 hours of sport a week, but not at all bothered by school on Saturdays!

I think it's going to be a bit harder for her if she's rejected after thinking about it and preparing over Christmas than if she knew sooner, but mostly it's probably just me thinking it'll be a bit embarrassing if she clearly shouldn't be there. I've never quite got a handle on her and music - some teachers chase me down in corridors to tell me she's amazing, but she also hasn't done a single grade on either of her instruments, and her piano teacher seems to have given up entirely on setting her pieces and they just spend the lessons composing and chatting music theory. The fact that she'd need a full bursary adds to the feeling we're imposters.

I suppose you're right, though, I'm just letting my own discomfort get in the way. I know she's bad at spelling and good at maths, but if she told me she was entering a spelling competition I wouldn't try to stop her.

Now to choose audition songs. Her first idea was something from Matilda, but I don't think that would be quite the right tone!

Huge congrats to your dd @minisnowballs

On the subject of Oxbridge - how hard is it to get a choral scholarship? I'm presuming you need one to sing in the college chapel choirs? Dd aspiring to Oxbridge for a non-music subject. She's not really done many singing exams and has only been having lessons for a few years but she has been singing in a chapel choir since she was 9 and would love to continue that at whatever university she ends up at. Is it only the music students that can get them/do you have to be some angelically-voiced wonder-singer?? Dd has a lovely voice and will have plenty of experience but I wonder if that will be enough?

It really depends on the college! The big famous ones with beautiful chapels and recording contracts are rather different to the smaller or less famous (newer) ones. At the latter, any decent singer stands a chance. Plus even if you don't get a Choral Scholarship (which has some perks attached), most colleges will also have spots for other keen folk to join in anyway.

The system is different between Oxford and Cambridge, too. At Oxford you apply before the main application. At Cambridge, you can only apply once you've been offered a place based on academics.

Thanks everyone for your good wishes! There's so much to take in and get our heads around. I imagine it is going to be a big learning curve and will take some adjustment. DD is just realising she only has three dance lessons before christmas hols, she's really going to miss her teachers and friends as she's been attending she was 3. It is so exciting for her though, she can't waiting to get stuck in. Apparently she won't feel homesick, but she will feel Chetham's sick when she has to come back home 🙄 Thank you everyone for your tips, I'm keeping a note of everything before I lose track!

@minisnowballs Well done to your daughter, that's an amazing achievement! Thanks for your advice. I'm sure I'll have to come back to you with more questions!

Forgot to add, she's still going to visit her aunt in Thailand and we have just spent over a month traveling around Europe, which I'm relieved we managed to do, otherwise it would be impossible next year.

That's brilliant @mustardrarebit - enjoy having her to yourselves while you can!

Hello! I hope everyone is enjoying all of the lovely concerts in the run up to Christmas!

I wonder if I can ask for some advice re cellos and bows? My DS2 has a 3/4 size cello and his teacher has said that he needs a full size bow now and then a full size cello, probably, in about a year's time. At the moment, DS2 has a Stringer's cello, which came with a bow. DS2's teacher has said that he could do with a higher quality bow. Having had a quick look at bows online, it seems like there's a huge variety out there. Can anyone recommend one that would be appropriate for my DS2? He's 12 and is currently around grade 7/8.

And with cellos, has anyone got any experience with the Benslow Music Loan Scheme or any other organisation that awards grants? How much might we need to spend on a 'decent' cello?

Any advice would be much appreciated! 😊

Think that this might be one for @QueenMabby who has recently bought a cello and bow? Did the teacher give any advice?

My DD just got a new full sized bow for violin as she needed to upgrade and obviously there are huge differences in options and prices. We ended up getting a range from Caswell Strings sent out to test and having tried them all out she then got her teacher to try them too / offer advice. She went for a carbon fibre one as she liked the feel / weight / tone from playing the best. Her teacher preferred the wooden one but said that the difference wasn't enough to overrule her though! We set a max budget and picked out a couple that she wanted to try and then they added a couple of alternatives to test.

I don't think that its the last bow i'll end up buying, and in some ways that was easier as wasn't trying to pick something that would last forever, rather something that was good enough for now and to grade 8 / ARSM type of level.

Definitely don't feel like imposters! All sorts of children become successful choristers. Obviously all choir directors are different, but on the whole, they're looking for a voice they can train and for a good musical ear and the right personality to fit with the life. Also need to be a decent academic standard, so they can keep on top of schoolwork alongside the very busy chorister schedule. How old is your DD? Is it a cathedral choir she's going for? Is she joining at the main intake point?
My DS started as a chorister this year at one of the London cathedrals and joined the attached choir school, so I can understand how you feel about embarking on the process. I'd say just be fairly relaxed about it but definitely let her give it a go if she's that keen.
In terms of song choice, I'd go for something simple that allows her to show she has good access to her head voice - even a carol like Away in a Manger or something. Good luck and keep us posted!