Musical instrument

[happyboysandhappygirlsarewe]

Hello I am looking for advice from some musical mumsnetters please.

I have signed by youngest up for a music programme where they can choose to learn a violin, cello, viola or mini bass - I believe they get a few preferences.

What preference order would you recommend putting them in? She will be almost 6 when she starts learning. I don't know much about string instruments except its going to be slightly painful for a few years until she gets decent or gives up. Obv its her choice but she's open to influence / bribery.

Don't let her learn bass unless you are prepared to move a fully sized one around later.

Most viola players started on violin they are very similar. The violin is probably easier to start on and and the music is easier to read

Never played cello so won't comment.

I’m biased but cello would be my first choice.

She’ll start on an appropriately-sized one and they aren’t THAT much of a pain to carry around. They are also way less painful on the ears than beginner violins!

Then violin, mini bass and viola in that order.

The reason for putting mini bass above viola is firstly that it uses a more generally useful clef (bass clef rather than alto clef) but also it could lead on to bass guitar as well as a full (or 3/4) sized bass, whereas wit( viola you’re pretty stuck.

Thank you both

I learned the full size double bass. It fit into a Citroen Saxo when my mum was carting me around the county as a teenager!

One advantage of a lower pitched instrument is it's less squeaky when a learner is playing it....

Ah Peony that is an interesting perspective - another advantage of the mini bass is they loan you one rather than having to buy one.

I know someone who used to get a double bass and several children in an (old size) Mini - never was quite sure how she managed that!

I still like cello more, though

Viola will get her more opportunities earlier in terms of ensemble playing whether that be orchestras or chamber music. But yes you can easily enough change from violin to viola or add it in (both my university age children play viola a little off the back of being violinists, mostly on borrowed instruments). If she started on viola but got really good quickly I'm sure she could easily add in violin too.

It is not uncommon for children to be drawn to the sound of one instrument ahead of the others, so do ask her what she thinks and pay attention to the answers.

Cellists definitely end up with the responsibility for transportation. My violinist sister has two cellist daughters and they used to refer to "cello tetris" getting two instruments in the front passenger seat, that stopped once both needed 3/4 sizes or possibly earlier. When my sister was university age, it was always the cellist who drove to quartet gigs.

Yes double basses are a big transportation issue - but in many contexts instruments may be loaned to reduce the need to move them around.

Finally, violin (let alone the others!) does not have to sound bad even at the beginning - take the time to listen and enjoy the sound you produce, work on open strings loads, and you can get very tolerable results quite quickly. (massive COI - I'm a Suzuki violin teacher)

It sounds a great opportunity, I hope you both enjoy it! Good luck.

Thank you this is all great advice

Bass and viola will give her more orchestral opportunities, because they're always shortage instruments. Bass is especially good in a few years for joining county and national orchestras if she takes to it - I used to be in an orchestra where I was working on grade 5 while most violinists were working on grade 8. And mini basses are so cute!
Alto clef (which viola uses) isn't any harder to read than treble or bass if it's the first clef you learn, so I'm not sure what PP means there.

Don't let her learn bass unless you are prepared to move a fully sized one around later.

Double bass is the best instrument to play in an orchestra. I loved playing bass!

Seconded! being the power from the bottom is awesome

It’s not any harder to read than the others, but given most other instruments use treble or bass it means she would definitely have to learn at least one other clef fairly early on, possibly 2 if she wants to do piano.

Upside of the viola is they'll be in hot demand in school/amateur orchestras

True! But that in itself might not be such a problem if she's taught the concepts of clefs and how they work early on too. I personally read treble, bass, alto, and tenor on varying combinations of instruments and don't find it difficult to switch between

I think it's a shame that the first session does not allow the children to have a go on all four instruments and make their choice later on.

But as it doesn't, I'd play her some music featuring the violin and cello and see which she prefers. If there is no preference, I'd consider the practicalities.

Assuming she continues with the instrument, how far is it to the secondary school she is likely to attend and how will she get there every day? It will be difficult for her to to walk for a mile with a cello or bass on her back, as well as her other school stuff. It will also be difficult to carry a cello or double bass on the bus or train (as one of my daughters would testify)!

More generally, I'd say the pros and cons of each instrument are as follows:

Violin and viola:

Pros: Smaller and more portable
Cheaper (at least for the first few years)
Strings will always be cheaper
For the violin you only have to play in one clef (two for the viola, but you start with one)
For the viola you will always be in demand and it will sound less screechy at the start!

Cons: Many people find the playing position uncomfortable.
Will take longer before she makes a decent sound, partly because the bigger the instrument the more mellow the sound, but also because it's much easier to play in tune on a bigger instrument. She may be upset by that, especially if others in the family are less than encouraging!

Cello and bass
Pros: You can make a decent sound almost immediately
Some people find it a more comfortable playing position

Cons: more expensive, bulkier and heavier, cello has three clefs to worry about (but again you start with one). I'm not sure about the bass.

Violin and bass might provide more opportunities than cello and viola for playing in different genres such as jazz or folk.

It's probably too early to tell, but what sort of personality does she have? If she likes being the centre of attention, she might prefer the violin as there are more opportunities (in an orchestra) to shine. If she prefers to be more in the background, one of the others might suit her better.

Is she likely to be tall or short? The viola is lovely but (other things being equal) the bigger the instrument the better the sound. A short child/one with small hands is unlikely to play a big instrument comfortably so may end up playing one not much bigger than a violin. Of course all young children start on small instruments, but if you're a viola player it's nice to be able to move on to a big one eventually. Many female adult cello players don't play full size cellos, but (in my view) the difference in size doesn't make that much difference to the sound.

For context, I have one child who plays the violin and viola, and one who plays the cello.

Many female adult cello players don't play full size cellos

I have never met a female adult cello player who doesn’t play a full size cello. I got my first full size one at age 11!

Quite! @PricklyPearNoThornsPlease I was playing a full size double bass at 14. Cello is not a huge instrument at all!

Full-size is a bit of a variable term anyway, at least on bass and viola. My bass was probably considered a 3/4 size, but it was older than such rigid classifications and built for an adult, so that was somewhat irrelevant as long as it fitted me. Basses also have variations in the angle of the shoulder etc, and different people prefer different shapes.
Also btw basses eventually also play in three clefs (bass, tenor, treble) but that's at least a decade away from OP's dd!
I will concede that having to sit in the bike space on the train is a PITA. Getting a good trolley is key to transporting the bass as it gets bigger, I had one called a Double Trolley that converted into a stool, but I don't think it's made anymore. It was great for my back.
Second thinking about her personality! No point being a bassist or a violist if she's constantly going to be whining about not getting the tune, you have to be happy in the harmony.

My kids went through a similar programme. Bear in mind that you may not get your first choice instrument anyway, my youngest wanted cello but ended up playing bass. She loves it but I hate lugging it around!

My eldest started on the viola and has had so many amazing opportunities to play in various regional orchestras and a community opera alongside professional musicians. He started off quite halfheartedly, but now wants to study music at university, mostly due to these experiences.

Same. My school had double basses and I used one of those. I was allowed to take it home to practice.
You'll need a stool for her to sit on to play it.

My mother had a 7/8 size and so did my daughter's cello teacher.

Perhaps it was more common when the average women was shorter than they are now!

Possibly, or perhaps they both just had exceptionally small hands.

My first cello teacher would be getting on for 100 now and played a full size so 🤷

Double bass! (Some of these comments may be a tiny bit biased!) I ve had so many opportunities I wouldn't have had if I was doing violin. It's easy to make a nice sound from the start. You are the most important sound in an ensemble. You will almost always be able to get into ensembles, including as an amateur adult. You don't need a massive car. A decent enough bass is much cheaper than a decent violin. You'll often be loaned them to start off with. They are pretty solid and harder to damage. Most adults play on roughly 3/4 size although there's lots of variety in shape etc. You hardly ever need to replace the strings. ( Although admittedly they are expensive when you do.You can buy wheels that slip on over the case, an absolute essential once past a small instrument size, makes life so much There's lots of great solo music now and brilliant ensemble music, the repertoire has blossomed hugely so you're not stuck just playing badly transcribed cello stuff that doesn't fit the instrument.

As a viola player my heart would say viola, but sensibly I would suggest violin. She can always switch to Viola later if she wants to.

Assuming this carries on for years to come, there will always be logistical issues with cellos and basses, they're bulky and heavy to cart around. Bass players often get special dispensation to park in the nearest spaces to the concert hall as adults, cellos don't usually get that privilege.

Is there a particular instrument shes interested in as that would be a good place to start