Learn to swim 1-7 How long!

[swimknee]

Does anyone know roughly how long the Learn to swim pathway stages 1-7 should take? I know it will slightly vary depending on child but Swim England must’ve had some idea in mind when designing the pathway.
I recently posted about my ds and his knee issue with swimming but now I’m thinking that I’m being taken for a mug by his lessons provider covering up for him having an incompetent instructor so I no longer trust them. It has taken him 3 years to get to stage 3. Unfortunately there isn't any alternative swim schools that have spaces.

Both my children have been slow and steady to progress - both started age 3 and ds age 9 (nearly 10) is at stage 6 and dd age 8 is at stage 4. They have friends who started lessons later who are at same stage or ahead. (They both obviously had gap for covid) there are times when they were making little progress and then something clicks and they accelerate. They’ve had excellent teachers and some not so great ones- dd especially they have all been very good but she’s been stubborn! It’s expensive /long but worth it and feel like we are finally getting there!

There's a timescale here: How long will it take for my child to learn to swim? — Big Blue Swim School. That said, from the evidence of my local swim providers (one club, one local authority), most kids are taking a good deal longer. We do see a difference between the club and the LA provision, with people who teach at both saying that the LA is more thorough, e.g. the kids who've just started stage 7 under LA provision are generally better swimmers than the kids at the club starting stage 7. Our LA provision seems to undertake more assessment activity when they need to find places in particular classes for new swimmers, so to some extent their rate of progress seems to be influenced by replacement rate / maintenance of revenue.

Remember you don't have to stick with it until the end. I'd like my daughter to have made more progress but we are calling it quits this summer. I feel she knows enough to be relatively safe and I'm sick of shelling out for weekly lessons.

About 1 grade a year, on average, if they swim once a week and are taught properly.

Some dcs pick it up faster than others, have more of an aptitude.

I think a grade a year on average if you do it till the end. It’s quicker for the lower grades. Obviously kids learn at different speeds. It also depends if they practice between lessons. Also many quit by stage 4 or 5. DC2 is at stage 4 and she swims lengths the whole 30min lesson and even a bad butterfly stroke. If your aim is to just learn to swim, that level is more than enough.

DS is finishing swimming lessons at the end of year 7, age 12, and will have finished stage 7 by then.

Having checked over my kids' records, they've taken between six months and a year for each stage, averaging a bit over 2 terms. Earlier stages generally took longer (perhaps due to COVID disruption, younger kids generally taking longer to get coordinated, and in one case the swim school just having not updated records for about 4 months....). Overall, I'm happy with the progress, some coaches have suited them better than others, yes, but each has helped them develop good technique and water safety skills. I do feel it's a bit pricy for half an hour's activity, but the regular, committed activity helps build good habits, increases their strength and endurance, and they are happy and confident in and around the water and secure in their bodies. One child is looking forward to being able to do some lane swimming before school a couple of times a week, and I'm happy that this is something which is accessible to them, and which they're able to do and want to do. It has taken a while to get to that stage, but I feel on balance it has been worth the time and money for them to be able to swim well.

Both my older two took 3.5-4 years to do stages 1-7, having started at just 5 and just 4 respectively, so I guess an average of around 6 months a stage, though in practice some they whizzed through and some they spent a long time on, the longest being two years for stage 5 for one of them. Generally from what I have seen most seem to get stuck on stages 5 or 6, often because of breaststroke. Both still swim now with a club.

My youngest is on the verge of passing stage 4 after over 4 years, although there were gaps in that due to Covid.

Thank you, that is really helpful. It is LA provision lessons he’s doing. My fear is that I’ll keep being told the same thing- “some children can take 18 months the per stage” He did all the duckling classes so should have had a bit of a head start. All of his class mates started about a year and half after him and have now all overtaken him. I had to complain to the manager about how long it took to get through stage two (15months) as it was discovered that his instructor hadn’t taught a crucial part of the criteria however I couldn’t get the manager to admit it however he did give ds 2 free 121 lessons for him learn it. I guess I could class that as an admittance of sort!

My youngest has done 1-6 in 2.5 years

My older ones I let leave at stage 5 as they had enough going on and they could swim but younger has no other sport she enjoys.

Think the teaching is better where my younger dc does as her style is beautiful.
They obviously spend time perfecting strokes. She seems pretty good at it

DS is 4. He began parent and baby classes at 1, then preschool classes at 3 and is only now progressing to the equivalent of stage 3 despite being at a stage 2 capability level (ie able to swim unaided for 2-5m) since he was a baby.

The reasons we were given were:

1. Stage 3 is about more than capability. They focus on behaviour and safe swimming too. As DS has ADHD he really struggles with both. He’s only moving up because the other kids at stage 2 are so far behind the teacher thinks they’re teaching him bad habits.
2. Height is important. Taller children are often more confident in the water as they can comfortably touch the floor.
3. muscle development - if you can’t move your arms and kick from the ankle (which many kids can’t do) you won’t be able to swim safely at stage 3.
4. Independance. At our sessions stage 2 has helpers. Stage 3 doesn’t. So if your child needs help or reminders to turn in the water when they reach the rope, it won’t be safe for them to move up.

Swim England posts a clear set of activities children need to achieve at each stage. Maybe print it out and review them yourself during lessons so you have data to back a complaint.

So ds started parent and baby classes at six months then progressed through to adult &toddler, pre school and then the 1-7 pathway. The pre school classes were independent of any helper other than the instructor. He started stage 1 when he was 4.5. He is now 7. He is quite tall for his age. I know one issue was with his kicking from the knee which was picked up by another instructor other than his usual one.
I have emailed the manager for an exact breakdown of what criteria is needed to pass stage 3 ( I’m going to take him swimming at weekends to practice) as the issue with stage two was they add on extra bits to the swim England criteria but don’t add it to their online account -it only shows the basic swim England criteria which he could do in the pre school classes. The criteria needed that wasn’t taught was the breathing technique needed for front crawl -I didn’t find that out until another instructor at the centre assessed him.
I'm finding the whole process so frustrating!!!!

Yes kicking at the knee will def delay things. Try making him practice his kicks via backstroke. Incentivise knees staying in the water. But it’s tricky because every time he has a growth spurt he’ll need to relearn how to kick from his ankles.

Are there private 1-2-1 lessons available either in your area or outside? Might help to get all the niggling bits sorted so he can move up.

It took my son a while to progress, but he's an excellent swimmer now.

The only thing I can recommend is plenty of practice between lessons.
We went on holiday, where the deep end was out of his comfort zone, and his swimming was fantastic by the time we got home.

We did levels 4-10 in 2 years.
I taught DD the basics first and she started at age 8 to perfect her technique starting in level 4 swimming recreationally as well as during the lessons.

I think they plateau at different points. My 5yo has been in stage 2 since September (skipped stage 1 as she’d done pre-school and baby swimming) and I think she’ll be in there for a while longer despite the fact she can do all the asa stage 2 criteria. She’s tiny and is obviously less powerful in her strokes than some of the older children and has dubious listening skills so good chance she’d be a total liability in the big pool. But she is still progressing and doesn’t need a hat colour change for her to still be learning so I’m not too bothered. It’ll be listening skills for her rather than swimming that will be the cue for the change.

But…My eldest has got stuck at various points and I have got a bit narked though as it’s not been clear why and it’s felt like a bit of a con. First point of annoyance was her being stuck in stage 3 and not getting her 10m ticked off despite the fact she was doing lengths by that point in class. I then got narked at the stage 5 point when she was doing 400m sets and hadn’t got 10m ticked off. Her stage 5 certificate says ‘now you can try 25m’ and she thought it was ridiculous and really took away from getting the badge when she’d been doing that for so long.

I'm not convinced baby and pre-school classes make much difference. Children catch up very quickly when they start. My not particularly sporty 5.5 year old was terrified of water in her face but passed Stage 1 in about 8 weeks after making really fast progress. There were little ones in the group who frankly held up the whole class and who just aren't ready for group lessons without a parent even if they can get across the pool with a noodle. Getting to Stage 7 in about Y4 is definitely achievable based on the children I teach.

Finding this really interesting. My daughter is just 5 but has been attending lessons weekly (bar Covid lockdowns) since she was 6 weeks old. I think she is on level 2 and has been since November. I feel like it’s slow progress. She doesn’t like going and wants to stop. Given the cost I’m keen to let her stop but I really thought after 5 years she would be able to swim a bit unaided, but she can’t.

wont be starting so young with my second as it was clearly a waste of money!! When she was little she liked going so I didn’t mind but with hindsight I’m not sure what benefit all those years had for her actual swimming ability.

@modgepodge I feel the same. Started Ds at 8 months but then I remind myself why. He loved water at a young age- used to have a tantrum everytime we took him out the bath lol. I just assumed he’d be a natural water babe. I’m wondering if it’s just a case of waiting for that “click” to happen. I tell myself because I started him so young at least he doesn’t lack water confidence bit it breaks my heart when I see how enthusiastic he is but others seem to progress quicker.

I also think baby and toddler swimming lessons are a waste of money. DD1 has been going to lessons since age 2. She is now 10 and about to finish all the stages. DD1 was stuck at levels for long periods. DD2 started at age 7 and progressed quickly. She is one class behind DD1.

The truth of the matter is that children who start staged swimming classes later are more likely to give it up before they can swim competently, but of the minority that remain they do end up being stronger swimmers than those who begin these classes younger.

Parent and baby and preschool swimming classes are just there to build water confidence and don’t count as ‘staged’. You can do that yourself if you have access to a pool.

Having said that I progressed early with my son because I want him in the technique building classes by 6/7 which is when his school will begin to filter swimmers for competitions. As he loves swimming I want to give him the best possible chance.

Do you mean in a stage 4 class or have completed stage 4? DS is in a stage 3 class but hasn't completed stage 3 IYSWIM.

@Ozanj what's the source of the information that 'children who start staged swimming classes later are more likely to give it up before they can swim competently, but of the minority that remain they do end up being stronger swimmers than those who begin these classes younger' please?

Depends how young they start, my dd was older (house moves and lack of suitable local pool when younger) and only needed 2 lots of 8 lessons to be able to confidently swim lengths. She was in a group of 4 over 8's and they progressed them quickly rather than sticking to precise curriculum. Dd2 did the standard lessons and got nowhere in 16 weeks and begged to quit - we taught her ourselves instead. I swear the standard lessons are about extracting as much cash as possible from parents, they move them along so slowly

Imo fooooooreeeeever, both started stage 1 at age 4, DS is just turned 7 and in stage 3. Dd is 9 and in stage 6. So roughly a year per stage. I've heard that stage 6 & 7 CAN be a bit quicker. Plenty of friends kids have finished the whole lot already by 9. Mine are a bit slower.