Is Musical Theatre singing often unmusical?

[Puzzledears]

My teenage daughter is considering a Musical Theatre course. She dances and acts and has begun singing lessons (has a nice voice and is musical, achieving well on instrument). To get an idea of the standard required, I’ve started following (TikTok and Instagram) various institutions that offer MT degrees and I really dislike so much of what I hear! Lots of belting without phrasing, pitch slightly off. Does anyone else find this? I’ve been so surprised by the examples that some of the “best” institutions share. Do my ears just hear it wrong?

I wasn’t sure where best to post this so have also put on Music board.

Which institutions are you following? There is a considerable hierarchy.

I don’t want to name individual institutions as it seems a bit personal to the students selected in their clips. But I’ve been able to work out the hierarchy tiers quite easily and I’m not following the lower tiers. I’ve seen your posts on mumsnet and balletic for years, thank you for replying.

How old is your dd, and does she want to go to say, Hammond or Tring for 6th form, or audition for the others, Laine, Bird etc post-A levels?

The ones which offer a DaDa can be more beneficial as you then still have the option of changing course and doing a full degree in something else should performing arts not work out for whatever reason,

Thank you Taxi. She’s Y9 (just) so I hope she will stay at schools for A Levels as she’s quite a home bird. We have a summer school booked for Tring and it would be a good idea for her to try other places for future holidays. She’s mainly focussed on ballet so far but can see that it’s exceptionally difficult to get into a company and she doesn’t want to audition for a vocational school now. The two MT places where I haven’t liked the singing they’ve posted would be those slightly below Laine in the hierarchy. I’m classically trained musically.

She'll have a great time at the summer school. My dd always used to say that staying in the Mansion was like being at Hogwarts 😂

Ah, if you are classically trained musically, then yes - musical theatre singing is an entirely different kettle of fish to classically trained (ie operatic or choral) singing. They should still be in tune though!!

My DD was accepted into Laines at 18 but she still wanted the classical ballet route and declined. I really wish she had accepted Laines due to the way things turned out.

Hope your DD enjoys Tring, it is very beautiful there. DD was in the Conservatoire as it was in those days

@Purplebunnie Laines has a very good classical stream, so I hear on the grapevine.

Back at audition time we didn't know very much, I had thrown Laines in just to mix things up as she had done MT.

I found Balletcoforum after we'd made decisions.

I changed my name on here ages ago

I usually go by another name on here, and use this one for dance-related stuff.

I didn't realise you could have two names on here.

I wouldn’t say it’s unmusical, but there is very different technique from classical singing to musical theatre singing, just like there is again to various kinds of pop singing.

I grew up classically trained and went into MT from that and it was a significant benefit. Many of my peers didn’t have sight reading skills and struggled with musical notation because they trained with lyric sheets and listening to recordings or a teacher and just singing back. My DS does musicals and has gone down a similar path - he has his more classical lessons privately and then also does group lessons through a stage school. At 10 he is preferring any opportunity to actually have the sheet music for learning, and it has put him in a much better position working shows now, as rehearsals take much longer when someone can’t sight read.

MT is chock full of belting and it takes some adjusting to hearing it so much tbh! But pitch should be accurate… the oddity does come that in some styles of MT, a lot of riffing is encouraged, and that can do all sorts to the pitch, which may or may not actually sound great in the end. Not all MT is this way at all though, and there are a great many shows that require cast to sing exactly what is written. There are even a handful of parts that tend to use more classical technique for sopranos, though they are more the exception than the rule.

Honestly I would encourage the classical training as long as possible, even alongside any MT lessons or school. It will only help and she will be able to adapt and go back and forth. Classical training will help her more with range and breathing too, most likely, so all a plus.

All that said, if you can’t stand to listen to it, maybe see if you can steer her away! ;-) But there is quite a wide variety of style in MT so maybe all will be okay really. :)

I do find the sound recording quality on TikTok can be absolutely rubbish too, fwiw.

I have also previously gone by another name and like @taxi4ballet have a DD in professional MT training mine is at Conti. She has always sung MT but, didn't learn to belt until she was 16 as her very experienced ex- west end pro teacher said anyone can belt. Sadly many teachers start with belting as it is easy another well known MT singing teacher says 'it's just shouting to music'.

Rick and Pop genre is a lot of belting, contemporary has a fair amount, but standard broadway hasonly a little and legit has none and is the closest to classical as it is the operetta. My DD's re strength is standard broadway so she does a lot less belting.
One of DD's friends came from classical and has had to totally retrain her voice, as a legit singer she is amazing, but she finds contemporary very hard.

My dd was dance focus, but a number of her friends went into MT training and she's still in touch with some of them.

Some of the newer MT schools that promote themselves heavily on TikTok make my ears hurt so I see where you’re coming from OP (there’s one in particular that comes immediately to mind). Lots of those awful pretentious hand gestures that look like they’re pushing/pulling to get the note out.

I trained in MT at Mountview (albeit 17 years ago 💀 ) and it was VERY different to what I see on TikTok - it was all about technique and control and being led by the acting instead of belting your head off (and we used get told off for riffing too much). Granted it may be completely different now as I don’t know how the teaching has changed.

A really good MT school will focus on technique, acting and creating a strong all-round performer. Best of luck to your DD

@MindatWork I’m pretty sure you are describing the MT school that has surprised me the most! It seems quite successful with graduates getting jobs in the West End so I thought the singing would be better musically. So interesting to have the view of a Mountview graduate!

Oh yes, most longstanding Mnetters change username regularly, and you can still change back and use previous names again if you want to. A lot do it for reasons of privacy, especially if they are posting about something sensitive or potentially recognisable, and they could possibly be identified by it if anyone searches their previous posting history.