Autumn 23 Music chat

[horseymum]

It's autumn term already! I'm sure there's lots of music going to happen this term. Welcome to anyone who wants to chat about your child's music activities, whether current or things you hope to do. It's a friendly group with experience at many different levels.( I've learned so much) No question is a daft one and don't be put off by chat about higher levels, all our children couldn't play a note once.
Come and ask about starting music lessons, which instrument to choose, exams, music festivals, specialist schools, orchestras and ensembles. We love talking music.
We also love to share music exam successes or struggles etc ( you can't always shout about these on FB!).
Feel free to do a wee intro if you want, although it's still public so only share what you want to.

The ABRSM diploma is being withdrawn at the end of this year

@Comefromaway yes I am aware. I guess it comes down to how highly regarded the new Diploma is. Very important to DD and to some extent her teacher.

To me the logistics say ARSM but DD has set her sights on DipABRSM

I think that the risk in terms of taking the DipABRSM at this point is that if she fails any part of it there will be no chance of a resit as its being withdrawn at the end of December. My understanding is that the results take months rather than weeks too so there really is no chance of fitting in additional takes on any part not passed.

In terms of whether ARSM is as highly regarded - maybe not but it is what is available and going forward no one will have access to taking DipABRSM anyway. My understanding of the ARSM is that its a performance of 30mins of minimum grade 8 standard repertoire and that LRSM or FRSM are later options.

Could she look at Trinity options if she's not happy with ABRSM?

Regarding to the Abrsm diploma, my DD has done that almost 10 years ago. She always wants to achieve LRSM. Because of she has been doing other career path, so she hadn't really got the time to do it in the past few years. I am wondering if the LRSM will still around for next couple of years. My DD would like to do just for personal ambition/goal.

Don't DipABRSM and ARSM have the same repertoire pools? If that's still the case worst case you fail Dip you can always bring the same or similar repertoire for ARSM later.

From what I've heard cello teacher is right, Dip is higher regarded (and also easier to fail), but I imagine people will lose interest in it somewhat if it stops existing. Back in the day I did the old advanced certificate, which was a previous attempt at bridging between Grade 8 and LRSM, bit easier to pass than Dip but same sort of repertoire and still had extra components and a viva.

Angelkid, looking at website it looks like the new versions of L and F are going to be logistically easier being recorded rather than having to go to a centre with all the impracticality mbell is discovering. Makes a lot of sense as it can still be examined by experts without causing headaches to the non London based.

I need to look into this too as DD will do something else post grade 8 next year. ( Although not I think on piano as I can hear the frustrating attempts at sight-reading for grade 8 just now so think she will just enjoy repertoire on that once the exam is out of the way)

Thank you all for the insights.

We appear to be having to make a decision based on practicalities rather than the chosen exam, which really is a shame.

Ive spoken to DD and asked her to have a chat with her teacher. She’s so ambitious and wanted the more challenging exam!

I expect ARSM is going to be the overall outcome on this one.

Interesting. DS is working towards what I assume is his performance piano diploma - four pieces back to back? No scales or anything?

In the meantime, it's Show Time! Technical rehearsal night, dress tonight, then a run of five shows. All gone a bit wrong, with the stage manager designing and building a set far too complex for the stage and number of stage hands, so they only got through one act last night. Still. Sure it will be alright on the night!

He's going go be so exhausted. 6-10 every night. Plus school. Plus exams. next week!

@herbaceous sounds fun! We have a competition next week, an open mic/ band thing this week then a wee pause before December's run of three JD concerts, one school one, my orchestra one, three church carol services and Christmas day playing.

I have only just discovered this thread!

DS (8) plays piano (recently got G1 distinction) and cello (only been playing for a few months). He struggles with rhythm in general, although slowly making improvements. The first year of learning was full of ups and downs. But now he's done G1, he's mentally better prepared for the challenges.
I played the piano to G8 but hadn't touched it for 22 years. With DS learning, I picked it up slowly, but still very rusty and generally speaking I don't have time to practice! DS practices way more than me.
Cello is something DS wanted to learn himself. I didn't know anything about string instruments until DS started. Must admit I watch a lot of "TwoSet Violin" which taught me so much.
I have always concerned about how much time it could take to practice two instruments, which is why we delayed DS's cello lesson by a year. I already noticed the increasing amount of time he spends practising. I wonder how other children cope when they are on more advanced levels, on top of school work and other hobbies? Personally I always struggled to find time to practise enough when I was learning.

Welcome @Nbobun ! Hope your dc enjoys his playing. Practice time is about routine and being efficient we have found. And fun!

@horseymum thank you. He does enjoy it, much more than I did when I was his age!
We have a fairly consistent practice routine from day 1. 99% of the time he practices daily. It's just with 2 instruments, his practice time is now about 1 hour at least, and it's pretty efficient - I monitor what he does and we focus on areas we need to work on. That's with him being a total beginner in cello, so much shorter practice time.

I'm interested to see how other more advanced kids fit their practice into daily routine. We both work full time and DS is in clubs until 5pm every day. I find it harder and harder to fit homework, practice and dinner in the evening and still aim for a reasonable bed time...

Wow, an hour for a grade 1 and sub grade 1 player is a lot, well done if he can keep the focus for that long. My youngest (13) is grade 5/7 on two instruments and doesn't do as much as an hour in total most days, unless she gets lost in something. Middle does about an hour on each some days but often split up. Maybe break things down so some things are done every day and others done more when you have more time eg weekends. We manage because older kids equals later bedtime and fewer other activities as they have decided what they like. ( One or two sports sessions and a social club) At primary, one practice was done before school but not now. Some practice gets done at school as they do music as a subject. Youngest keeps her instrument mostly out as that helps with efficiency. They also do several ensembles which, whilst not being practice, are still involving playing, so helps. And are also the point of learning for many people.
Maybe have a routine for a short practice day and a long practice day and don't stress about length of time, doing something most days is better than one long one. If it's an after-school club, is there a piano or keyboard he could practice on sometimes? Just stick a copy of his music in his bag so it doesn't get lost.

An hour a day is a LOT.

DS (14) just got his g8 piano, and now working on diploma, actually practices his pieces for maybe half an hour a day, if that?

G5 french horn - an hour a week, max!

g6 singing - almost never. But was a chorister, so lots of inbuilt technical work.

Nbobun, hi! Like the others I was going to say that an hour a day is loads, about what DD does at g6ish&7ish on her instruments. DS at 6&6ish even less but I wouldn't recommend his approach, he takes forever to learn pieces. You can get a long way on an instrument with half an hour's practice most days. If your DS keeps up this commitment he will get on very nicely. And if he wants to become more serious down the line, other things will probably have changed by then anyway.

Hi @Nbobun and welcome to this amazing tbread!
I don't have any wiser words than other much more experienced musical mums. Just going to say I totally get what you're feeling because we'r in a similar boat. DS just turned 7 and he practiced at least half hour on the violin (G4/5) and a bit less on the piano (G1) each day. I found it hard to fit it all in the daily routine too! In the end I went part time! This is not the only reason I went part time and was a a big influencer about the timing of it. Not saying you should do part time 🤣 just show that I understand how much impact their music activities can have on your lives!
Anyway what I found useful was focusing on seeing some improvements rather than the time. Some days he focuses really well and improves a lot of things then we'll just do 15 mins or so.

Mine does an hour a day minimum but that’s post grade 8, second year degree! Some days he “only” does rehearsals and timetabled ensembles which leaves no time for additional practice.

My 10 years old DD only practices 45 minutes every another day of each instrument, piano and violin. She is going to sit grade 5 exams for both in 2 and 4 weeks time. Then, she only practices no more than 2 hours a weeks for singing lesson( grade 5). She is also a full chorister at cathedral too.
I agree her timetable is overloaded, plus 11+ exam is coming up shortly, plus school clubs.....
We didn't intend to be that busy when she first started. I am hoping she will be able to cut down these activities next year.
Now, she is very into musicals, (phantom of the opera is her favourite!)and would like to try musical theatre in year 7. I told her she would need to cut or slow down other things.....
Does anyone have any experience of a kids' musical theatre course? My DD is already 5' and a bit overweight( because she is taking long-term high dose of asthma medication). Do you think it is too late to start dancing lessons?

@Nbobun that's loads of practice for a younger one! Amazing focus. DD1 (16) does twenty minutes a day, if that, for g6 viola and makes correspondingly slow progress!

Practice for DD2 when she was at home for the hols was about an hour on the main two a day - preparing for ARSM diploma on her flute and really no idea what's going on with bassoon - just a lot of very difficult repertoire and breathing exercises.

Before September, when she moved to specialist music school, to fit hers in at home she used to do half an hour on flute in the morning (to take grade 8) and half an hour on bassoon in the pm. Singing - well she does very little- but sings constantly and is in choirs so I guess that helps! Nowadays she gets timetabled practice periods so she probably is doing over two hours a day plus ensembles in total. But that's a completely different kettle of fish to her previous world and she managed pretty well.

I reckon the mantra of 'practise smarter, not longer' will take them a long way.

Another one coming on to say an hour a day is loads for G1. Both of mine managed about 10 mins per instrument at that time - also not sure they'd have done it every day, but most days. DD now working on G8 piano - does about 20 - 30 mins a day before school, sometimes a bit longer on the weekend but only if i'm sitting with her getting her to focus on specific bits. Its probably only 30 mins 'cos she's obsessed with playing Christmas music at the moment, without that its probably shorter. She's doing G5 violin in a few weeks and probably does around 20-30 mins violin a day too - usually does that after school.

DS does about 20 mins flute (working on G7) and honestly about 10-15 mins on piano (G6 - though probably explains why he's had the pieces for soooo long!).

If he's happy doing an hour a day then thats great - but also, if its hard to fit in, cut it back or alternate instruments?

An hour is very long indeed for G1. DD only had 10 minute lessons back then (tagged on to older sibling’s lesson) so no more than 10 mins practice.
Now, there aren’t enough hours in a day. DD (13) plays organ for 20 mins before school (keyboard skills) then home to 20 mins piano (diploma but not working towards exams any longer), 45 mins violin (joint 1st study, diploma) and 90 mins or more organ (diploma and passionate about). Homework gets squeezed in (mostly on car journeys 😬). No time for other hobbies since organ started but up until age 12 there was time still for swimming, gymnastics etc

We were told by junior guildhall that they expect kids on the brass and string training programmes to practice daily for the length of their lessons. So the complete beginners who are 6 will be expected to do 20 mins per day per instrument.

We will definitely be aiming to do at least some of it in the mornings as not feasible to fit everything in after school.

@SweetforOrchestra that sounds about right. Our teacher suggests 10 min plus 10 min for every grade, so 20min for G1, 30min for G2 etc. When I was learning it was initially 30 min then from G4-5 it was 30 min scales etc plus 30 min pieces during weekday as minimum and 7-8h during holidays for exams, which was insane.

Just to clarify, when DS was working towards G1, he did about 20-30 min every day. But since he got G1, he got given new piece which I now realised is G2. And the teacher has stepped up in other areas like scales/arpeggio and sight reading, so he can easily spend 45min doing those. Some days he decides to learn Christmas music or movie soundtrack (easy version) so it can be over 1h just for piano. Cello has been averaging 15min. I don't really set a time target, but I do set mini goals for him like learning a new part, improving certain areas etc.

DS is out of the house by 7.30 every morning so the only time we can practice is in the evening. As he advances, the only solution is to perhaps drop some of the school clubs (which we don't want do, nor does he) to allow him doing homework at school, so he has more time to practice in the evening.

My dd(14) practices nowhere near any of those amounts!
Piano (g8) is about 30-45 mins maybe 4-5 times a week.
Cello (g6) maybe 30 mins 3 times a week.
Voice (g4) practically never!

To be fair though although she is serious about her music she doesn't want to do it as a career so isn't "working" at it in that way.

She does play in three orchestras, has a weekly piano duet lesson with her long-time (7 years nearly!) duet partner, plays in a chamber group and sings in a church choir. So gets plenty of music time that way.

If she has lots of homework on (or something else demanding of her time like a school drama production) then practice slips still further.

@Nbobun sounds like he's really enjoying it and he's on the right track. Our piano teacher doesn't set a practice time just what to practice and it's up to us for how long we practice.
We don't get much home work at this age (state educated) mainly the reading. He usually does it when snacking or waiting for something. There's a bit spelling/math but not much. So it's mainly the music practice that takes up time anyway.