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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

Original poster

A dance school question.

34 replies

Dancerr · 23/07/2023 15:43

Teenage DD has been asked along with another teenager to teach a couple dance classes at their dance school per week. They'd be taking the classes but an adult would be 'around'. Apparently it will take 2 years to qualify so she wouldn't get paid for at least 2 years she's been told but she has to be commited everyweek.
Can anyone tell me how this works as far as Safeguarding? Also, I don't know if I'm right here but if my dd is teaching the class then I would have expected her to get a little bit of money or a free class in exchange? Not sure if anyone has any experience of dance schools but it would be nice to hear people's views.

OP posts:
DanceMumTaxi · 23/07/2023 15:56

The seniors help out a lot at my dd dance school. Either taking classes or assisting the teacher. They get free class/reduced fees.

Original poster
Dancerr · 23/07/2023 15:59

DanceMumTaxi · 23/07/2023 15:56

The seniors help out a lot at my dd dance school. Either taking classes or assisting the teacher. They get free class/reduced fees.

She's been helping out a lot but now it's changed to taking the class. No free lessons or anything, she takes 5 lessons a week there.

OP posts:
Gatehouse77 · 23/07/2023 16:13

As PP mine helped with the younger ones and got free/reduced classes in return.

Actually taking a class? Does your DD want the qualification? If not, just decline graciously.

I am aware that dance schools are strange places. DD was good but not excellent and they didn’t want her doing exams as it would bring their ‘all distinction’s’ results down. Fortunately, DD only did it as a hobby and actually didn’t want to do the exams. Which she’d felt pressured to do at a previous dance school who were more focused on numbers than results. Ultimately, I was glad to find somewhere she could indulge her desire to dance, be in performances and improved to her satisfaction.

Original poster
Dancerr · 23/07/2023 17:37

Gatehouse77 · 23/07/2023 16:13

As PP mine helped with the younger ones and got free/reduced classes in return.

Actually taking a class? Does your DD want the qualification? If not, just decline graciously.

I am aware that dance schools are strange places. DD was good but not excellent and they didn’t want her doing exams as it would bring their ‘all distinction’s’ results down. Fortunately, DD only did it as a hobby and actually didn’t want to do the exams. Which she’d felt pressured to do at a previous dance school who were more focused on numbers than results. Ultimately, I was glad to find somewhere she could indulge her desire to dance, be in performances and improved to her satisfaction.

Thank you. She really wants to teach, she's only nearly 14 so a lot of responsibility, from what I gather they will be in charge of class but an adult nearby. I wasn't sure whether to push fir her to have something in return like a free lesson They won't be paying out for a teacher for 2 classes a week.

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 23/07/2023 17:38

I would suggest that your dd says ‘no’ unless:

  • She is actively training as a dance teacher, using an appropriate syllabus
  • She has a clear written curriculum to follow, with high quality modelling of how to teach every element of it from a qualified teacher
  • She has had full safeguarding and first aid training, and knows exactly what to do
  • It is 100% clear, in writing, who is responsible for any injury or accident occurring in the class (and it shouldn’t be her)
  • All aspects of insurance and liability are made absolutely clear in writing
  • All parents of children in her classes have been informed, in writing, of the teaching arrangements in the class

If all of the above are in place to her satisfaction, then the question of payment arises. I would suggest she calls whichever dance body administers the syllabus that the dance school follows and under which she is being trained as a dance teacher to deliver these lessons (ISTD, BBO, RAD etc) to find out what normal practice is for the payment of trainee teachers.

DD supported dance teachers in dance classes across 3 different genres as an older teen. She was paid in line with minimum wage and was never responsible for the class.

cantkeepawayforever · 23/07/2023 17:41

Cross post. At 13, absolutely not. What if a child doing an exercise she has demonstrated hurts themselves seriously? Far too much responsibility.

TrueScrumptious · 23/07/2023 17:43

Absolutely not. Under any circumstances.

Original poster
Dancerr · 23/07/2023 17:44

cantkeepawayforever · 23/07/2023 17:38

I would suggest that your dd says ‘no’ unless:

  • She is actively training as a dance teacher, using an appropriate syllabus
  • She has a clear written curriculum to follow, with high quality modelling of how to teach every element of it from a qualified teacher
  • She has had full safeguarding and first aid training, and knows exactly what to do
  • It is 100% clear, in writing, who is responsible for any injury or accident occurring in the class (and it shouldn’t be her)
  • All aspects of insurance and liability are made absolutely clear in writing
  • All parents of children in her classes have been informed, in writing, of the teaching arrangements in the class

If all of the above are in place to her satisfaction, then the question of payment arises. I would suggest she calls whichever dance body administers the syllabus that the dance school follows and under which she is being trained as a dance teacher to deliver these lessons (ISTD, BBO, RAD etc) to find out what normal practice is for the payment of trainee teachers.

DD supported dance teachers in dance classes across 3 different genres as an older teen. She was paid in line with minimum wage and was never responsible for the class.

This is very helpful thank you!

Some of these points have come up in conversation we me and a friend who's daughter has also been asked.

OP posts:
Iwasafool · 23/07/2023 17:46

Will they be helping her get her qualification?

cantkeepawayforever · 23/07/2023 17:50

TrueScrumptious · 23/07/2023 17:43

Absolutely not. Under any circumstances.

Given her age, I agree with this. From your op I assumed that she was maybe 17/18, getting ready to train as a qualified dance teacher with an established dance school or at a dance college of some sort.

cantkeepawayforever · 23/07/2023 17:54

I would also, tbh, question the quality and integrity if a dance school that had such a young pupil they were planning to pit in this position. Where are the 16/17/18 years olds planning to go to dance college which a high quality dance school would have?

I would be looking for a new dance school for your dd if she is hoping to go on to dance or teach - how much has she herself been taught by untrained, inexperienced young teens?

CoffeeWithCheese · 23/07/2023 18:15

This sounds really dicey given her age. It's also something I'd not be happy about as the parent of one of the little ones which I assume is what they're hoping she'll cover - the age of "skip around and yank your leotard out of your arse crack and call it ballet" dancing lessons - because those parents sure as hell won't be getting a class cost discount for a young teen doing the teaching either.

The closest thing I can think of that we have at kickboxing are that some of the older students are volunteer mentors - get training to do the role and are extra partners, or go around demonstrating combos when pairs are practicing them - and they get discounts on their own class fees as a result and they NEVER have to do anything more than whoop encouragingly or offer a correction on a pair working on something already demonstrated by the class teachers... that is at a level I'm happy with as it's a bonus to staffing levels, not a substitute for it (and generally they're really really good, dedicated kids who've made it up to the higher belts).

Original poster
Dancerr · 23/07/2023 18:37

I need to clarify some things and I will go and with some questions. I need to see if there will someone actually in the studio during the lesson looking on.

OP posts:
DanceMumTaxi · 23/07/2023 20:11

I do think 14 is too young to be talking classes alone. The seniors at our school who take classes are between 16-18.

GallaBru · 23/07/2023 20:18

Personally I would say no. This seems sketchy.

What kind of dance is it, that takes 2 years to qualify?
Its one thing teaching a dance class, but another to teach other children (sometimes requires separate qualifications on top) and from seeing the decent insurance companies I’ve used in the past, you cannot teach children without it. Their anatomy is different.

taxi4ballet · 23/07/2023 20:32

I can't begin to describe to you how every kind of wrong this is.

Being a class 'helper' whilst a fully-qualified dance teacher is taking the classes would be one thing, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. Anyhow, what is this so-called qualification she would get at the end of two years? Who will be teaching her how to teach?

Aside from all that, the parents of the kids in the class she would be teaching are presumably paying full fees for the classes in the expectation that their dc will have a professional qualified teacher.

TrueScrumptious · 24/07/2023 08:44

I’ve been reading the details on that RAD assistant teacher award, posted above. It’s brand new, as of this month. It does say that it could take the average youngster one-two years to qualify, and it does say from 14 up. The teacher has to be an “approved tutor”, though - all of which costs money, of course. It also says that the young assistant teachers not only aren’t paid but they themselves are charged for their assistant teacher tuition. Of course, under this scheme, the youngsters aren’t meant to be teaching by themselves.

Comefromaway · 24/07/2023 13:39

Absolutely not, its slave labour and way too much responsibility.

I never allowed assistants to teach unsupervised (plus I paid them) and they had to go through the proper safeguarding procedure.

It does cost a lot of money to become a qualified dance teacher and I can see the logic in charging for the Assistant Teacher Award but what you are describing sounds totally different.

taxi4ballet · 24/07/2023 18:02

My dc is an adult dancer now, but as a parent, I wouldn't want to be paying a dance school fees for my dc to be taught by an unqualified, unsupervised 13/14 year-old who has no health & safety training, no knowledge of anatomy & physiology, no first aid qualification and no safeguarding training. Not to mention no teaching experience. And what about insurance? I can't imagine that the school's insurance would cover for anything that happened while an unqualified young teenager was in charge of a class.

Original poster
Dancerr · 24/07/2023 21:17

taxi4ballet · 24/07/2023 18:02

My dc is an adult dancer now, but as a parent, I wouldn't want to be paying a dance school fees for my dc to be taught by an unqualified, unsupervised 13/14 year-old who has no health & safety training, no knowledge of anatomy & physiology, no first aid qualification and no safeguarding training. Not to mention no teaching experience. And what about insurance? I can't imagine that the school's insurance would cover for anything that happened while an unqualified young teenager was in charge of a class.

After talking more to dd, the owner will be in the studio registering children in and out, speaking to parents etc so I guess she will be there to keep an eye on them. I suppose that's how it's allowed.
Not sure what happens when the children need the toilet etc or help changing. I need to find out what happens then
I'm not letting her jump into things, I am going to make sure it's all legit as I have reservations.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dancerr · 24/07/2023 21:19

cantkeepawayforever · 23/07/2023 17:54

I would also, tbh, question the quality and integrity if a dance school that had such a young pupil they were planning to pit in this position. Where are the 16/17/18 years olds planning to go to dance college which a high quality dance school would have?

I would be looking for a new dance school for your dd if she is hoping to go on to dance or teach - how much has she herself been taught by untrained, inexperienced young teens?

They've all gone off in the last year or going now.

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 25/07/2023 11:51

I suppose that's how it's allowed.

No, that’s how she’s got away with it. You have to see that this is not remotely good, or even ethical, practice. It us fooling parents into thinking that their children are being taught safely by a qualified dance teacher, whereas in fact they’re being taught unsafely by an untrained young teen.

Was your DD also taught in this school at a younger age? This should surely be making you ask questions about the quality of the foundations of her dance training?

Digimoor · 25/07/2023 12:13

Our seniors help out as class assistants - I wouldn't be happy with a student teaching the class.

I wouldn't be happy paying full fees for a 14 year old to teach my child.

taxi4ballet · 25/07/2023 13:33

@Dancerr OP, as you can see, a number of posters have raised a variety of issues with this idea, and I hope that the advice you've been given will go some way towards clarifying the position in your mind. 🙂