Advice on career in dance

[sylv165]

My daughter has been dancing since she was 2, and is now 11. She has started talking seriously about wanting a career in dance, but I am clueless as to what the options are. She is a bit of an all rounder - in the past year or so has passed Grade 4 exams in acrobatic arts, ballet, modern, musical theatre, and lyrical, and grade 3 contemporary and tap. She also competes with the competition team and is generally successful, usually places in top 3 in solo.

So she is a reasonable standard for her age, but because she spreads herself across many different styles I don't think she could (or would want to) go down the traditional ballet route. Her favoured styles are contemporary and acro, but I would say modern is probably her strongest. Has anyone got any tips as to what she could do career-wise with this background? And what she should be focusing on between now and then if she really does want to start taking it more seriously? I'm sure she is good enough to get into a dance course of some kind when she is 18 as some senior girls in her dance school have been accepted, but just not sure what comes after that.

Is she interested in just dance or MT?
If MT she needs to strengthen her singing and acting.
She could dance or MT degrees or diplomas that can lead to performance careers, choreography and teaching.

If she’s not thinking of joining a vocational school until she’s 16 or 18, then keep doing as many genres as possible, whilst remembering that almost all auditions will include a ballet class. Add in singing if she’s thinking MT. Adding an associate programme in whichever genre she prefers would be good.

And get saving - vocational training is very expensive and not all courses attract student loan financing.

Thank you both for your replies. She is definitely more interested in dance rather than MT, her singing voice is fine but not good enough to make it a career. Sounds like keeping it broad is the way to go. I will look into associates programmes - are there any you would recommend?

I wish I could save more @VariationsonaTheme, currently most of my spare cash seems to be sunk into costumes, competition entry fees, extra lessons…🤣

@sylv165 I would say competitions are not essential my DD has never done a competition in her life and got fed up at grade 3 with tap, but is a italia Conti doing MT.
She has a friend who has never done and exam or competition - first year at Bird being chosen to represent the college in dance all the time.
If she enjoys the competitions and exams great, but there are plenty of great dance schools that don't do that stuff and get students into the top schools for tertiary training.

Funded places at dance schools are competitive but worth going for.

Although she’s been dancing since 2, training only really has an impact from the age of 8 or 9. For ballet, she’d need to be serious about that and prepared to focus on ballet to the near exclusion of other genres.

If she’s not interested in musical theatre, contemporary dance might eventually be a way through.

But a career in dance? She’ll need to be exceptional in whatever genre she wants to be paid for. Really exceptional. It’s a very very slim chance, frankly.

There are several university courses in dance which include technique training and other areas of dance studies, to equip graduates to develop careers in the creative and performing arts more generally.

But a career as a dancer? Only if she’s the top 1% and she & her teachers won’t know that it’s even a possibility until she’s around 15 or 16. Even then ….

See what local Associates programmes are in your area. Is there a community dance agency which runs a CAT scheme - have a look at Swindon Dance, or Fabric/DancExchange in Birmingham or Dance City in Newcastle. There are others, so check what’s in your area.

Avoid the Dolly Dinkle studios which focus on competitions rather than foundations of technique. And that includes ballet, which is a strong foundation for most other Western concert dance forms. She needs to do ballet.

I agree she should continue a wide range of styles but ballet must be at the core.
Look for associate programs and summer schools to get experience of different dance schools/colleges and it gives an idea of where she may like to go in the future.
If your dance school is sending pupils to vocational schools/colleges then ask your teacher for advice.
It is very competitive so bear that in mind when it comes to auditions. And expensive. There are far fewer jobs than people in vocational education also.
She needs to have a plan B so keep up with the academics.
Balletcoforum, although it is ballet orientated, has a lot of advice about vocational education and there are more all round dancers on there as well. Definitely worth joining. Good luck!

I actually was a professional dancer and honestly I don't think I would recommend it. It's constant hustling for the next job, it's not particularly well paid, you're often on tour for long periods of time with people you don't like, youre just one of a number and bottom of the pecking order, in the 00s there was an incredible pressure to be thin (unsure if that's the case now). I did some really cool things and saw a lot of the world but I would make different decisions if I had my time again. I actually transitioned into acting after dancing for a few years which was much easier on the body/better paid/I found easier to get work and tbh brought more joy.

@EveryWitchWaybutLoose i guess that is kind of what I’m wondering. Although she does ballet and enjoys it, she is definitely not good enough to be a professional ballet dancer. And for the other styles, she is decent and hard working but top 1% of the country is unlikely. I’m sure she is good enough to get into a dance college at 18, but if there is such a slim chance of being a dancer then is there any point? And this is probably a stupid question but what does “being a dancer” actually mean outside of ballet? Is it cruise ships and musical theatre or are there other options? Is choreography a separate career, or one you take up after you retire from dancing? It is just a totally foreign world for me.

As far a competitions go, I don’t know if they necessarily enhance her technique or not but she absolutely loves performing and being on stage so there is no way she would quit that side of things to go to a school that just focused on grades. I’m stuck with that for the long haul I think!

Being a non ballet dancer usually means the following jobs:
Cruise ships (these are actually very fun, lots of drinking, you see the 🌎!)
Touring In a musicals or shows as chorus (singing needed if a musical)
Film/TV work - often well paid and easy job
Music videos (can be well paid)
Summer season in hotels abroad (usually poorly paid)
One off event type things, sometimes you will be flown to a NYE party to be entertainment in a far off country (sounds more glam than it is!)
Chorus in WE shows (you need to be able to sing)
Spirit of the dance/similar
Loads of dancers some commercial modelling

You can defo transfer into choreography but I think again this is quite hard to make a living solely off

I have a daughter a couple of years younger who is absolutely driven to dance at the moment too. I loved dancing through my teens but went off into a very academic career afterwards (law)

My thoughts

• definitely make sure she's in a dance school that is focussed on good technique and has well qualified teachers - they are a very mixed bag and research is key. Does her dance school send students to vocational college?

• if she's loving dance for now, then it's excellent for health and fitness and wellbeing. So she might as well keep doing it irrespective of future prospect. My daughter dances many hours every week but she lives for it and has a lovely group of friends there who are like another family.

-the discipline and tenacity and confidence from dance feed well into things like academic success. By the time I got to GCSEs I had done countless dance exams and knew all about pre exam nerves and exam prep

• ensure she keeps up the academics , but be sensible about what she focusses on. We do all the English and maths (in fact she has a tutor once a week even though she's doing very well in those subjects) but we sometimes take a view on project type homework (" draw a picture of the king") as she does need down time .

• I don't think you can pre plan too much at this age, my plan is to keep supporting DD to dance while she wants to whilst encouraging her to keep an open mind about her future. She chats about dancing her way round the world and also about maybe teaching dance or being a school teacher. At the same age I wanted to be a poet or an author, and actually all my time crafting (undoubtedly terrible ) poems and stories probably helped shape my the skills I needed to become a lawyer, so they weren't wasted. I think supporting a child who has drive is key

DD does go to theatre school as well, and does lamda classes on top of that (all her choice, my bank balance is less enthusiastic than she is ). For her it's because she loves being in their shows and also loved the workshopping type side of drama classes but I do think acting complements the dancing well.

It does mean a huge amount of her week is taken up though (8x dance classes plus 3 hours on a Saturday at theatre school plus lamda; and thats before we add in show or exam rehearsals!). I'm not sure I'd add it in if the drive hadnt all come from DD.

And this is probably a stupid question but what does “being a dancer” actually mean outside of ballet?

There are some extraordinary contemporary companies around:
Jasmin Vardimon
Richard Chappell
Rosie Kay

Perhaps needing very strong ballet but contemporary nonetheless
Rambert
Russell Maliphant
Ballet Black

I find that educating yourself about classical and contemporary dance more generally is important - you probably need to get beyond the idea that children’s dance competitions are anything to do with a professional dance career.

Dance trained graduates can go into educational roles in schools but also local authorities and dance companies as outreach and educational officers. I did class for a while with a young woman who’d done her high school training at Elmhurst. Then got a PhD in meteorology.

@SweetSakura i totally understand re the time and financial commitment! We are up to 11hrs per week minimum, often more in the run up to a competition or exam.

I think the teaching at her school is reasonable- not bad but could be better. We based in Northern Ireland so have limited options for associates programmes, but her dance school is quite good at getting people across from England/elsewhere to do workshops - eg on the ballet side they’ve had Rosina Andrews and ruaidhri Maguire, and for the more commercial stuff they’ve had Dane bates, Jessica Jones, Rebecca davies, etc. She also does a 3hr session monthly with a teacher that comes over from a well known English school. Probably as close to an associates programme that we’ll get without having to travel too far!

Interesting @EveryWitchWaybutLoose, I will definitely look up those names and see what they are about. Thank you for sharing.

@Namechange828492 i think I want to work in a cruise ship 🤣

My Dd is just finishing her btec in performing arts and going to uni in September to carry on her studies. It is bloody expensive! She wants to be a show girl or that's the dream anyway

@marrymeadam best of luck to her! It does sound like a very difficult field to break into, but if you have a real passion for it I suppose you have to at least give it a try

My cousin who wanted a career in musical theatre so could sing dance and act was advised to learn a musical instrument as that added another skill and in rep theatre the ability to multitask was very important. I don’t know if your daughter has time to add this is but thought I’d mention it. My cousin chose the trumpet because there were fewer trumpet playing dancers so thought it might help her employability.

@sylv165 haha it is definitely fun, but only really for the young (and single 😉)

I did manage to do an online degree whilst touring/cruising as you have quite a lot of free time (I know some ships, dancers have more duties but I've only ever experienced meet and greet/bingo calling/dance teaching level duties in addition to shows) so if your DD doesn't pursue a degree at 18 it's a good opportunity for that (although i think all the vocational colleges offer a degree now). It's also a good place to see acts by entertainers you forgot were still alive 🙃

@Namechange828492 is the pay terrible on a ship? I assume you have minimal living costs so wondering if it could be a good thing to do for 5 or 6 years to try and build up some savings if she wanted to then go into teaching/start her own dance school. But maybe you just end up spending all your money on cocktails?!

It's OK if you don't have to pay rent at your home place (I.e. if you can dump all your stuff at your parents' and not still be renting in London) but dancers' wages are lowest so singers get more. It's forever ago but I think I was paid around £1.5k pm (I think?or maybe that was in EUR..) And you don't pay tax on money earned at sea. But you do want to do voluntary NI though. Rehearsal pay is low. If you can find a man to create a duet act with you get paid more so that's a better shout! I saw a "quick change" act once which was amazing. Crew bar is cheap.

It is a good way to save but also if you do back to back contracts for 5 years you would go officially insane, I think contracts used to be 6-8 ish months, then you do some other stuff for a while and go back the next year. I didn't do it much but some people do make that their thing and keep going back. It used to be looked down on more as a "lesser" job but now that ships are so amazing it's regarded more highly (rightfully).

I may have misremembered some stuff but hope that answered your question! I've got into watching "below deck" and it makes me want to be young and carefree again!

I know you said ballet is not her particular forte, but do bear in mind that all vocational schools/colleges offering dance training at 16/18+ will have a ballet class as an integral part of the audition process. For musical theatre auditions they will be expecting candidates to be at a good Intermediate ballet level as a minimum really.

Yes thank you so much @Namechange828492, that’s really helpful. My sister actually keeps saying I should watch below deck so I might start watching lol.

@tailinthejam totally agree with you re ballet. She is not terrible at ballet, she does well in the exams and will keep on with her grades work, but she just considers it to be a necessary but not particularly exciting part of her training. She’ll still get a good foundation in ballet, but she’d never focus on that to the extent that she would be specialised enough to join a ballet company.

My daughter is the same re ballet @sylv165 ..she really enjoys it, and is very good and can see the benefits of if it too as a core part of dance , but she just doesn't love it as much as some of the other disciplines. But her dance school is very clear about its importance if you think you might want to have a career in dance.

@Namechange828492 that sounds like a fabulous way to have some adventures! I did some work on yachts in my early twenties and below deck definitely brings back the memories . I have been on a couple of cruises and was really impressed by the standard of the productions

I am also a lawyer @SweetSakura so definitely feeling like I should have lived it up on a cruise ship for a few years rather than going down the serious academic route! Although my two left feet would have been a bit of a hindrance!