Do Brownie groups differ a lot?

[BeccaGeej]

DD is 8 and has been at Brownies for a year and a half. She's always moderately enjoyed it but never loved it. She loves getting the badges but doesn't really enjoy the meetings. She had a group of friends but they were all older than her so have moved up to Guides and she now feels she has no friends there. A couple of her friends from school go to other units and when I asked their mums if they enjoyed Brownies, they said they loved it but from what they were saying, their groups sound a bit more dynamic. DD's unit seems a bit disorganised, we never get a programme of events, never really know what badges if any they are working towards, she randomly comes home with badges sometimes that she wasn't even aware she was working towards! She often says they've just played games, rather than actually 'doing' anything.
DD is now saying she wants to give it up but I'm reluctant. She is an only and we really wanted her to try and develop a circle of friends outside of school. If she drops Brownies, she will only do school based extra curricular activities. I know all the leaders are volunteers so don't want to be too picky but I'm wondering if I should just let DD leave or whether I should enquire about her moving to a different unit if there is room but there's no guarantee she would make friends there either. Just worry she may come to regret it if she gives up.
Does her unit sound particularly disorganised or pretty standard?

My daughter’s pack is very organised but her leader is area commissioner. They have a published program every term and do 2 theme badges per year so in theory if they stay in for 3 years should all be able to get Gold award if they do the corresponding interest badges at home. In addition to the evenings this term they have weekend camp and a Coronation funday, and in September there is a trip to London. So it might be worth trying a different one.

I would definitely recommend having a browse locally. Try speaking to other girls' parents at school if they attend other units, maybe?

Local to me, we have a lot of different units. One is very cookery based, I've found. One does more outdoor activities than most. Finding a leader who suits your daughter is helpful too, I liked our very outgoing leader as she brought my DD out of her shell.

As it is run by wonderful volunteers of course they differ.

Either try a different unit or perhaps ask around and see if you can get into a good Cub pack , lots of girls do Cubs / scouts and IMO they are generally more dynamic , although again that does depend on the group .

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

We started at one unit that was woefully disorganised. My eldest did 3 terms of rainbows there and my youngest her first term. I volunteered as a parent helper for the youngest’s only term there and saw it first hand.

We’re now at a lovely group that fits us well, despite not being the closest, there are several other pack members on our street!

You are allowed to request to move packs - some people think this isn’t possible. We have 4/5 Brownie groups accessible to us, when I was small there was only 1! I’m quite amazed there’s enough demand/volunteers to run them all

I disagree with this, I’ve had safeguarding and first aid training through GG.

Our local cub pack (which incidentally is run by one of my close friends) is described as ‘being too much like school’ from the children I know have tried it!

and our district commissioners visit our meetings regularly to ensure we’re delivering the programme correctly.

Apologies, I should ensure I’ve made all the points I want to before posting

The two we have experienced differed wildly, one was run by slightly musty older ladies and was very 1950s, we removed her because it was all so odd. The other was a tightly-run ship very organised and productive, the leader even sewed all the badges onto the sashes etc and would chase you up for the extras the girls had to do to attain them. They all leave with sashes stuffed with badges, having achieved lots. A great experience.

Then it clearly varies massively by district. Because I had no training or support in the 5 years I ran a guide unit.

I asked for it and was told not to be 'obstructive'

I left in the end.

My youngest has just completed her 1st Anniversary, so I’ve only been a volunteer in the last year, as we started at the same time.

Some odd beliefs here -
Yes it is totally staffed by volunteers
there is very specific training for
safeguarding
first aid
delivering the programme accordingly to section / age
there is governance regarding how units are run

if guiding is not for you, fair enough, but let’s not spout incorrect information!!

They do vary a lot. Some have male volunteers and male children however everyone pretends that they are women and girls and they won't tell parents of their real status. And yes this includes nights away where the boys sleep next to the girls and men can sleep near the girls.

Yes they do. Leaders have to do a 3 day course in safeguarding

I am speaking from direct experience.

My experience was poor, clearly and so what I'm saying is, you cannot guarantee the level of training or experience your 'wonderful volunteers' have in ever pack or district.

Rainbow and Brownie leader here. This is completely untrue. All leaders complete various levels of safeguarding training with every meeting requiring someone trained to level 3If you are referring to the Girlguiding policy on trans members, you should be aware that scouts have the same policy and also permit trans members to share tents on the basis of their gender rather than biological sex.Its fine to disagree with the Girlguiding policy but its not fine to make such untrue comments in relation to keeping the girls safe.

This is true ….
girl guiding’s policies on trans girls / women is not good…
but in 11 years of guiding I have not seen the trans issue arise

I would imagine that as it's run by volunteers, it's bound to differ enormously. Some really engaged, some not.

Ours basically just gave the girls papers and pens every week, and just chatted, but I had no problems with that whatsoever. Why would I, given that the alternative was giving my own time up for free to child mind.

It is just not true that there is no safeguarding training. All leaders do regular safeguarding training, which you have to keep up to date. (I've been a Brown Owl, Guide and Ranger leader).

Yes groups do differ, as all leaders are different. Some are good at outdoor stuff, others are more craft oriented. Chat to other parents to find one that you like the sound of.

All guiding groups from Rainbows through to Rangers follow a program- which should be recorded and various awards given. There are also interest badges they can work on at home. You can find out about the program on the website:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-badges-and-activities/programme-for-every-girl/programme-overview/

Don't worry about changing packs- just remember to let the first Brown Owl know!

And as for the trans issue: the rules are the same for Scouts. Also, in nearly 30 years as a leader, it's not something I have had experience of personally.

Men are allowed to volunteer, I have 2 in my district. They cannot become full "leaders", but they have DBs, safe space (safeguarding) training and first aid. If we did not have them at least one of the units would not be able to run.

Male children go are generally leaders' children. Again if they didn't go neither would your child.

Back to OP: in our district (area) we rarely allow transfers between the local units unless for a very good reason otherwise after every falling out it would be a swap session. I would recommend talking to your brownie leaders and seeing if they can try and shuffle your daughter into different groups to mix and see if any friendships are started.

Our units are different because we use our volunteers' skills and interests to run the programme. We still stick to the programme but there is flexibility within it.

I would also suggest if you choose to drop Brownies that you find something else to try, but see what they say first.

Yup depends on the unit and what the girls enjoy. Also the programme is quite different nowadays there are no longer lots and lots of varied badges like it used to be. Now more tailored and their theme matches with the programme the girls should be doing in their units.

Also it sounds like some previous posters had a bad experience but all I can say is my experience and I have done lots and lots of safeguarding training both as a leader and a district commissioner. There has been a new rule brought in that if the leader doesn’t complete their safe space training they can be removed from girl guiding and are no longer allowed to be a member never mind a leader!

Thank you. Yes, I was planning on speaking to the leaders first and seeing if they could encourage some friendship groups. The helpfulness of their response would also influence our decision I think.
Yes, will definitely try and get her enrolled in something else if she does drop it.

It's very telling that the only defence of girl guides lying about men and boys sleeping next to girls is that this is the scouts policy too. Any organisation that positively encourages their volunteers to lie (and excludes those who tell the truth and share safeguarding concerns) is not one you would want to trust your child to.

I was going to advise looking into Scouting as well. There is usually a good mix of boys and girls in the groups these days.