Girlguiding and Scouting leaders - some questions

[OldCrone22]

I am currently a Girlguiding leader, at quite a high level - I am a trainer, a Commissioner, mentor and adviser and have run all four sections before now, currently running Guides and Rainbows.
I am really struggling with the governance of Girlguiding at the highest level )ie there is nowhere left to go with a complaint.
While I believe I will miss Guiding a lot if I leave, not to mention the girls and friends I have made among the leaders, I am no longer proud to wear the badge.

I am beginning to seriously think about Scouts as an option for me.

Girlguiding's USP as a girl only space is appealing to me, having had three dds (now adults) who flourished in GG but my committment to a girl only space is now secondary to other issues.

A few questions about Scouting, (esp from leaders with experience of both)

Do you think girls generally do well in the mixed group?
As someone who has previously been very committed to Guiding, do you think I would be welcomed?
I am not fit. My Camping days are done. I do indoor residentials, but I no longer enjoy them. Could I run a good scouting programme for a group without taking them camping? I know different areas run differently, but if I said from the outset that I can't do residentials/camps, is that fair on the members?
I'd welcome any thoughts on moving across to Scouting if anyone has done it.

Cubs Leader here! Definitely not for either but love doing a huge range of activities for my Pack. We have mostly boys but now have 6 girls (out of 26) and they're thriving. One in particular has really come out of her shell and volunteered for a leadership role. We run a very busy programme but I wouldn't be without it. It's a massive part of my life and thoroughly enjoy it.

Do you think girls generally do well in the mixed group? Yes

As someone who has previously been very committed to Guiding, do you think I would be welcomed? Of course

I am not fit. My Camping days are done. I do indoor residentials, but I no longer enjoy them. Could I run a good scouting programme for a group without taking them camping? I know different areas run differently, but if I said from the outset that I can't do residentials/camps, is that fair on the members? Yes, of course you would still be welcome. Volunteering is flexible. You give what you can.
I don't camp, but I have been volunteering nearly 40 years.

Former Guider here, current Cub leader. Nobody cares of you've been in guiding! Considering that girls in Scouting is still something that is relatively new in the grand scheme of things many female leaders have a guiding background.

The girls in our group do just fine and get stuck in to everything.

As for residentials there is no shame in not doing overnights. The great thing about scouting the the way they are run as groups with sections within that so you usually have a much bigger team of leaders to draw from than you do in guiding. Our group is fairly small and rural but we have 15 leaders within it plus a few occasional helpers and support overnights for each other across our sections. Eg one section has a leader who can't manage under canvas or without a proper bed so someone else steps in. Another section has a couple of leaders who struggle with weekends so again others cover for them.

Former Cub leader here... until about 15 months ago, and mother of a DD

Do you think girls generally do well in the mixed group? Yes, I think the diversity is valuable and adds personality types to the mix. I genuinely believe that boys and girls need to mix socially for them to understand each other. And I hate to say it, but there have been so many times a girl has gone up me and said "I didn't think I could do that until he did it"

As someone who has previously been very committed to Guiding, do you think I would be welcomed? Absolutely.

I am not fit. My Camping days are done. I do indoor residentials, but I no longer enjoy them. Could I run a good scouting programme for a group without taking them camping? I know different areas run differently, but if I said from the outset that I can't do residentials/camps, is that fair on the members? Absolutely. My assistant cub leader used a wheelchair. He didn't camp. Or hike, but he had so many ideas and put in place so many activities that I'd never have dreamt of. Again, diversity in experience, skill and outlook is key.

Thanks for your thoughts.

As a cub leader, I agree with much of what has already been said.

Do you think girls generally do well in the mixed group? Absolutely, they generally get on very well.

As someone who has previously been very committed to Guiding, do you think I would be welcomed? With open arms!

I am not fit. My Camping days are done. I do indoor residentials, but I no longer enjoy them. Could I run a good scouting programme for a group without taking them camping? I know different areas run differently, but if I said from the outset that I can't do residentials/camps, is that fair on the members? It is expected (wherever possible) that camps and residentials are offered to beavers/cubs/scouts. The young people can't complete their main awards without residential experiences. However, it doesn't need to be you that does this. Other leaders will most likely step in to help where they can. For instance, we have two cub packs in our group. The leaders of one pack are a bit older and no longer want to camp. So we take their cubs on camp with us, and it works fine. We also do a large group camp now and again with all beavers/cubs/scouts camping together. Not all leaders attend, but enough do to cover ratios, and sometimes parents help as well.

The best thing about scouts, from a leaders point of view, is how all the adults pull together as a whole group to give the best experiences to all the young people, not just the kids in their own section.

I'm a Scout Leader

Do you think girls generally do well in the mixed group?

Yes absolutely. Our troop is about 50/50 and the girls and boys mix really well. My own daughter has been in since Beavers and is now in Scouts and loves it.

As someone who has previously been very committed to Guiding, do you think I would be welcomed?

Yes absolutely.

I am not fit. My Camping days are done. I do indoor residentials, but I no longer enjoy them. Could I run a good scouting programme for a group without taking them camping?

We have leaders who camp and don't camp. You wouldn't be running a group by yourself but in a leadership team.

I know different areas run differently, but if I said from the outset that I can't do residentials/camps, is that fair on the members?

As above. Its very important that the young people get to go camping. Its an essential part of Scouting. But there will be other leaders who can do that. You pitch in and do the non Scouting bit.

Hi @OldCrone22
I am at a similar point in my guiding life to you with regards to the governance and policies and I am very much thinking of stepping away at the end of the summer term.

Last half term I made gentle enquiries about joining Scouting and was invited to visit a Scout troop with absolutely no pressure.

I have a young family and was concerned about the commitments to run camps etc but have been assured and seen that Scout groups and their leaders are very much all in it together; the Scout troop, I have visited a few times now, have a camp this holidays that’s being run by the Cub leaders and members of the local adult support team for the Cubs and Scouts as the scout leaders don’t have the right training completed yet. I gather this is a usual thing whereas I’ve found in guiding my Guides and leaders are very separate to the Brownie pack.

I am not sure where the adult support team fits in to the Scouting hierarchy and roles yet!

I have actually been invited to go to the
camp for a day and see what it’s like.

Scouting training seems from the outside very in-depth and time consuming; I told the commissioner who has been my main contact this and was reassured that a lot of it can be achieved with prior learning so some of our guiding stuff can be used; which is a relief and some areas offer a training day that covers a lot in one go.

I have a lot to think about as it could spell the end for my Guides as we are struggling leaders wise but my heart is telling me it may be time to go.

@OldCrone22 this is very sad, but I totally get it. Can I ask about what recent experiences have brought you to this position, please?

I've been both a scout leader and a guide leader and whilst I personally preferred guides there is absolutely no reason why you would not be welcomed as a scout leader. Personally I cannot answer to the girls question because I was involved in the scout group pre rule changes. But I would say we had a mix of leaders who would camp and a mix who couldn't and that was absolutely fine

I am not a leader but a former scout. I can give a girls perspective though.

We were the only unit with girls growing up in the early 2000s in our area. We had more girls than boys, the unit scout leader only had girls himself, he later had a son and still runs the unit now.

Us girls loved it especially showing off to other sections we could do anything asked of us as some of the other units did try to say girls can't do such and such which I think was mainly as it wasn't common to see girls.

The volunteer leaders all had different abilities some were there for numbers and would sit around the fire and help us clean up, we always had a female chaperone check we were ok at night, others were very active and pushed us to keep going. I know a cook who still does all the big camps in his mid 70s.

I learned a lot of skills that helped as an adult. One that came in very handy was when my dh never knew how to change a tyre and wanted to call his breakdown cover me 12 years after learning I still remembered the way we were taught.
The experiences were great. Rock climbing, abseiling, learning how to make rope bridges over water, kayaking, campfires and cooking on them, fire aid, Survivalist skills, hiking, pioneering, cooking competitions, shooting lessons (done by a qualified police officer in a gun range) all things we loved learning about.

DD is in brownies ATM but I would love for her to join cubs but her friends don't go and she's very nervous of new things. Ds is starting the squirrel program.

Im a Cub leader but grew up in Girl Guiding.

i think the expectations on you will generally vary depending on who else is involved. Realistically, it’s getting to the stage where I volunteer that it doesn’t feel “even” or “all in this together” anymore with the same few people putting the vast majority of the work in.. however perhaps if you’re transparent from the outset it won’t be an issue!

Definitely projecting my own issues to be fair! Have a couple of leaders who consistently cancel on the day of meetings (including a husband and wife duo who can’t seem to do anything separately)…

also been trying to plan a camp and lots of “it’s my mother in laws cats birthday” type excuses and again the same leaders step up because they don’t want to children to miss outS

Cub leader. I've "worked" in three different groups in three different counties. Prior to that I was a Rainbow leader.

We are about 50:50 boys/girls. My current Group is fortunate enough to have our own field/woodland, so we easily do outdoor activities. We therefore attract outdoorsy girls and boys. Our experience is that boys are more more likely to leave for sport usually football by the end of Primary school. My own two DDs have flourished in Scouting.

Camping... some of our leaders only sleep inside. We have a list of DBS adults we call on to facilitate Nights Away, not just the weekly leaders. These are our Committee members.