Spring 23 music thread

[thirdfiddle]

I saw some sunshine today so it's officially spring! Here's a new thread for all things musical.

With a nod to those who started the series, well before my young folk picked up an instrument or I braved the vipers of MN. This little corner is for support only, and bragging about your young folk's musical achievements is positively encouraged.

How are things looking for new year? Anyone new want to join us for a chat? Any lurkers want to delurk? All welcome from pre beginners to music college and beyond.

On cadences, DD is finding the cadence trainer part of the ABRSM aural app quite helpful

Thank you 😊 We are using this. All was going well... but suddenly it isn't 🤦‍♀️

Well even if it doesn't it's only one part of one section. DD got everything wrong in grade 5 aural but still got about 8 marks. I read the mark scheme and 'answering confidently' seems to get rewarded even if wrong so we went with that!

Yes, we definitely took on board the answering confidently but wrong seems to get more marks than timid and wrong so encouraged DD to at least sing something. At the later grades, the sing is a bit longer and she says she can never remember it so just makes it up.

Just a positive update to say the issue DD was having with her quavers seems to have resolved itself after a couple of days off! Thanks all for the advice!

Well, the French horn exam that was a 'complete disaster' actually resulted in a decent pass! 116! He's annoyed he didn't get a merit/distinction, but knows he didn't deserve it on the day. Once again his sightreading bumped up the marks - 20/21.

We await the g8 piano result with baited breath!

Good news lemon :)
And congratulations herbaceousDS! If they're well prepared and musical, even a really bad day can be a pass. Onwards and upwards! Fingers crossed for the piano.

Congrats mini@herbaceous! Fingers crossed for the piano.

Dd all done with school music for this academic year now. She's got new piano and cello pieces to have a go at over the summer.

She's full on in musical rehearsals though - the show is in October and they've even got two day rehearsals in the last week of the school holidays! Fortunately we're around as it's DS's pre-season hockey that week but still!

Thats great news @TheLemon , hopefully thats the pre exam jitters out of the way. Now you just need to be her personal cheering squad until the exam!

@herbaceous good news on the horn exam - also clear what to think about wrt future exams - eg whether to persist in face to face or shift to performance if the teacher doesn't want to teach the wider elements.

This week is quite music focussed for mine - DS has a school music concert this week and lots of extra rehearsals for their orchestra tour next week (which is to Paris so currently watching the news on the riots with 'interest'), DD in final prep for exam mode. Two strike days might be quite piano focused for her!

Hi all - I’m a long-time lurker here but sometimes pop up for the odd bit of advice!

My daughter is 10 and has been playing cello for 4 years - she’s doing well and loves it - she’s taken a break from exams this year (still doing the work, just hasn’t sat one!) but plays around grade 5 level, and trickier pieces in her saturday music ensembles.

She doesn’t really practice as much as she should for her stage (or at least not focused practice - she loves noodling around trying to learn pop songs by ear or from her Disney book!) but has also been begging to try adding another instrument - she has spoken to a viola teacher a few times and seems to love that.

She’s also been recommended to have singing lessons (she does sing in the school choir but that’s it at the moment), and really wants a piano (turns out she’s been playing the school piano in her break times trying to work out songs!).

All this obviously would be crazy expensive so she definitely can’t have lessons in them all - there’s no question of her dropping cello so I guess question is would viola lessons be practical at this stage? Doesn’t seem like a usual second instrument for cello! Or should she focus on singing lessons to help pitch etc? And would getting a piano just for mucking about purposes be absolutely mad?!

Also - would she be able to fit in the practice to actually progress on viola? Would it help or hinder cello playing?
Is now even the right time to look at picking up more instruments?!

Thank you - and sorry this ended up being v long!

Hi @Pes0penguin

In your situation I would look at singing or piano.

Singing because it’s great fun and social, piano because it helps develop the musical awareness useful for the high grade and aural skills.

I have two children both learning viola. DC1 does piano as well, the DC2 sings. DC1 has greatly benefited from the increased understanding of music that comes from learning piano.

DC2 has joined choirs as well as orchestras which has meant she has made lots of new friends.

As regards learning viola (although I’m a big fan), I’m not sure what benefits it would give over cello. In my experience cellists are always in demand for orchestras and ensembles.

@Pes0penguin my own view would be that piano lessons would be the most useful thing for her to add now. Piano is such a useful second instrument and a great way to learn about harmony, and it sounds like she’s really enthusiastic about it which is great. You can usually pick up pianos quite cheaply or even free but worth getting one looked at by a tuner as if it’s not tunable it won’t be much use to her.

I didn’t pick it up until it was too late really, and it held me back a bit in advanced theory (at least, advanced theory would have been easier if I’d been a pianist!) and then music degrees and conservatoires also expected a basic level of keyboard skills. Very handy for music teaching as well of course.

She doesn’t need singing lessons to carry on singing and can always add those later. I agree with you that viola isn’t a great second instrument for cello (unless she wanted to swap?). If she wanted to learn something else then a woodwind instrument might be a good shout - something like clarinet is versatile and she’d probably make good progress. Or oboe as it’s always in demand and you can’t really start it til older anyway. Just my pov though!

Thanks @Violasrule and @SweetforOrchestra. confirming my initial thoughts there I think!
I have absolutely no musical background myself and find it v easy to be swept along by other people’s passion/enthusiasm for teaching!

interesting re woodwind idea - she did try trombone a year or so ago but didn’t really click with it. She’s tried out a few different woodwind/brass and I think the amount of puff needed puts her off! She did like the clarinet the most out of all the woodwind on offer - i gusss she’s drawn to that slightly lower/melodious sound?

For singing - I think she might be picking up some more musical theatre next year anyway, and may also have the chance to join another choir - so maybe that’s enough there.

I have noticed that theory work would be much easier with treble clef knowledge/understanding of the piano Keys for the scales etc so I might suggest that’s where we go next… I’ll need to get a digital piano as my house is so small it’ll only fit a really thin one so sadly not as cheap as it could be…!

My instinct is usually to be guided by her interests or passions - but it’s so hard when it’s a whole world I know nothing about… and when there’s considerable cost involved!

Yes I know what you mean! I came from a non-musical (and low income) family so didn’t have anyone advising me/my parents on stuff like this as a child.

Digital pianos are great - just make sure you get one with properly weighted keys. Sounds like she’s doing lots of singing anyway and if you add piano then that’s probably enough to keep her going for now! But if woodwind might be of interest later then teaching herself recorder or penny whistle is a good starting point.

@Pes0penguin I think definitely piano if you can - I have a multi-instrumentalist who doesn't do piano (because she refused!) and I can see it's holding her back. She can play it in a kind of 'plonk out the chords and the melody line' way, but I know she'd get lots out of actually being able to really play. Singing lessons can definitely be done much later than ten.

School production of Matilda all finished here for DD2. It was truly amazing - I actually forgot it was her on stage playing Miss Honey. First production the school has done for nine years, to give an idea of what a big deal this was for everyone. 150 girls involved from Year 7 to Year 12. The rest of the end of term is going to be a bit of a come down after that.

@herbaceous that is a very respectable score! Fingers crossed for piano. Here, Grade 8 flute is next week. Aural still proving tricky. I'll be glad when it's done. Then it's a wind band tour over the summer and a national youth choir course. And then, new school for DD2 - big changes for us all!

Honestly, coming from a musical family doesn't seem to be helping any with knowing what to do with my own kids and music. I get on better with the brass side where teacher knows I'm clueless and just tells us what to do. The first person I would ask about potential second instruments would be her cello teacher.

Though suspect they're going to say piano too. Think I'd agree with the others that viola and cello could be a confusing combination. I do know some people who do it but all took up the second as adult well established players.

Also @violasrule, I've seen you on other threads and always wondered if it was viola-instrument, viola-flower or your name! Glad to hear it's the best sort.

I would normally suggest viola as a good addition but agree that there are usually plenty of opportunities for cellos in school/ adult amateur orchestras. Unless she loves it and is drawn to it in which case it might be good. My friends DC does it and is only one in regional orchestra. Recorder would be an easy and cheap way to try out woodwind, lots of different sizes to try once you have mastered the basics and there is a national youth recorder orchestra too. Piano is really helpful but hard if you're not motivated, but it sounds like she already is. I teach a wee one recorder and realise lots of explanations would be easier if she had basic piano. You can get pianos free/ cheap but they do need maintenance.
Anyone on a low income should have a look at grants for instruments or tuition /summer courses etc as most specify low income ( some are available to any and more based on ability or potential but they are harder to find).

@Pes0penguin just agreeing with others, that playing viola and cello wouldn't really seem to give additional opportunities. Whereas can see that if she added woodwind or piano it might be different. Is there an option to have piano lessons trough school at a lower rate? There are definitely fewer viola players overall so it does seem at the moment that there might be more opportunities, but I am anecdotally seeing a lot more younger viola (and bassoon) players at private schools, so not sure if it will continue! Piano will definitely help with aural and general musicianship though.

Re finding time to do practice, i think as long as they do a little each day its fine. Mine still really do about 10 mins per instrument some days - though DD has significantly upped her piano for this exam which is probably for the best! DS rarely makes it past 10 - 15 mins in total on piano though and flute can be similar!

DD had her last piano exam pre exam today but also last ever with her piano teacher as he's leaving the Saturday centre she learns at. We're both really sad to see him go - she's built such a lovely rapport with him and the difference in her playing from him teaching her has been staggering when i compare with a year ago. Fingers crossed her new teacher from September works out as well!

Just to say thank you to everyone - I’ve read all the messages!
She does seem to be drawn to the viola but not more so than cello - she really loves cello so can’t see her giving up that for viola even for Saturday orchestras etc. so think it’s probably right not to take up viola any time soon.

I’ve narrowed the digital piano search to either a Roland fp10 or a Casio s110(as budget options that will fit in the space we have). I’ll look into lessons through school - I don’t think they’re any cheaper but I might be able to start with a 20min lesson to see how she gets on. I think piano lessons would be good - but with a view to them as a supplement to cello and also for fun rather than exams etc.

Also to add that cello teacher is always consulted first! Just not for the viola question as until recent discussion I hadn’t seriously considered it. She suggested individual singing lessons as helpful for aural, and also mentioned piano as helpful for theory so I think my new plan of signing dd up for choir at sat music (as well as carrying on with school) and exploring piano lessons sorts that! I’ll employ a ‘watch and wait’ tactic for at least a term re any other instruments - whether viola or woodwind! 😊

@Pes0penguin well done and that sounds like a good plan. I have been watching but not eligible enough to give you any advice as similar to you I have no musical background and only limited experience from DS6 but he is too young.
Good plan and hope everything goes well and she loves the piano lessons!
Just to add my DS didn't think she would like but violin teacher advised him to try for the theory and he took it up quite nicely, still not as enthusiastic as the violin though but good enough to make the piano teacher happy!

Correction - DS didn't think he would like the piano

@Pes0penguin Hope it goes well with piano! We're similarly looking for a second instrument but from the other direction; started with piano and trying to find something that will mean ds can join in groups!

So far we've discovered that he's maybe not one for anything that involves developing a good embouchure... He's got a plastic fife he can barely get a squeak out of, he tried my old trumpet (he was fancying euphonium) only to get very frustrated that he couldn't get it to make a single decent note, so I guess that's brass out too! Clarinet he discovered was trickier than it looked, not helped by not having anyone available who had a clue how to do it when he had a go, but he still quite likes the idea of an oboe. Even if I can find a way for him to try one, I suspect he'll find that a bit too much on the tricky side too.

However, he's also had a little go on a violin and a cello and seemed quite taken with the latter, so maybe strings are his thing! He just doesn't seem to have any patience for things that take a while to get to grips with.

With lessons, I've had a little almost-victory though. The school are now looking into the ones provided through our county's music service, so there's some hope we'll be able to afford group lessons through them! (Thank you to the lovely folk here who told me about music services in the first place, it might end up helping quite a few budding musicians!)

Teapotkitten, I would not be so quick to rule out certain woodwind or brass instruments. My son found the fife quite difficult in terms of getting a sound out of it. He is currently working on Grade 8 flute pieces. He also plays french horn (Against everyone’s advice. Very different embouchure to flute.) When he started out on brass, his music teacher tried him on different headpieces in order to find the one that suited him best. Perhaps think about what type of music he likes to listen to, how is he going to be transporting said instrument about…

@Springbees I think if he's keen enough on one he might stick with it enough to get beyond the initial troubles, but so far he's just got upset with them, too much choice perhaps! It may end up coming down to which we can actually get lessons for anyway, so I'm not ruling anything out completely. It would be good to find something he really wants to play though
My mum has a trombone in her attic so I'll see if she'll get it down for him to have a try over the summer!

Hi @Teapotkitten I wouldn't worry too much about whether he can get a sound out of woodwind at the beginning (assume brass is similar). When ds started learning we used to do 10 goes of each note he was learning and for the first few weeks we were lucky if there was any sound at all. This continued with new notes for a while. That whole phase though was pretty short and so not too frustrating. I still can't get a sound out of his flute- the whole thing is incomprehensible to me, but thankfully that's not the bit where I'm needed!