Spring 23 music thread

[thirdfiddle]

I saw some sunshine today so it's officially spring! Here's a new thread for all things musical.

With a nod to those who started the series, well before my young folk picked up an instrument or I braved the vipers of MN. This little corner is for support only, and bragging about your young folk's musical achievements is positively encouraged.

How are things looking for new year? Anyone new want to join us for a chat? Any lurkers want to delurk? All welcome from pre beginners to music college and beyond.

I think that this is wise re instrument choosing. We mainly focused on whether it would fit in a pannier for cycling to school, so DS got flute but I didn't think about the limited spots in orchestras. He loves it though and really enjoys playing in wind bands and flute ensembles more than orchestras. DD plays violin - which is ok on the bike, and whilst a popular choice its also one with lots needed for orchestras so works well for her at the moment.

Bass / Harp / Tuba all a definite no from me from a transportation perspective. We cycle to Saturday music too so don't want to be forced to drive (London)!

I played oboe at school because we were all asked if we would like instrumental lessons and the music teacher allocated the instruments that were available.

Ds has been known to take a full sized weighted 88 key digital piano on the train and buses!

I do wonder if a lot of the emphasis on rarer instruments in prep schools is in pursuit of music scholarships to senior schools. Don't get me wrong I think it's great, but one thing that prep schools are keen on is telling prospective parents how many scholarships they have been awarded, as well as parents rather liking a scholarship. There isn't the same incentive in state primary schools and some of these instruments are expensive to buy when music budgets are very tight already. I do wonder if there will be a move away from these instruments even in prep schools,as most sholarships are now moving to honorary rather than pecuniary.

My son only wanted to play the horn. Luckily that’s what school allocated him- they all got a year of individual lessons in year 3 (independent school). They trial all of them on a taster day and the tutors allocate based on that. His year 3 had 4 horn players. He’s the only one still playing and he’s currently studying at conservatoire on horn.

I think that a lot of it comes down to what's available - in state schools the instruments kids learn are often driven by what school offers. Our junior offers quite a lot (violin, cello, flute, clarinet, recorder, euphonium, tenor horn, trumpet, trombone etc) but nothing that's too expensive to have instruments in school. This then feeds through to the senior schools. The independent schools have a fuller range so their pupils choose from that. It also helps them have more extensive orchestras.

I think though that the upshot is that choosing whatever your child is most interested in is obviously the main approach - but if they're indifferent perhaps an oboe / trombone / double bass could lead to greater opportunities if they're keen.

Wow, I feel like I might be living in a bit of a musical wasteland where I am - our (state) primary doesn't have any orchestral instruments at all, they give the children some ukelele lessons halfway through and that's it. When I was in a similar primary I went to a sort of fair thing where there were lots of instruments to have a go on and then get lessons for (I ended up choosing trumpet because the line for the flutes was too long, probably why I didn't stick with it!). I'd hoped there would be similar for my DC but so far I haven't heard of anything like that around.

If you do teapot then so do we. & Secondary is barely any better. People play rock band instruments if anything.

I think we were very, very lucky. Both DDs only play anything at all because their state primary did so much music - including shedloads of singing. They also recommended DD2 for Saturday music school (i still have the email the head inadvertently copied me into to DD's Head of Department at Saturday School which includes the gutting line 'the parents are not musical'...!)

Plenty of rock band instruments too - I've always wished mine played guitar or drums!

Haha @minisnowballs how funny! It was luck like that for me and DH too.

I think DS’s state primary does recorder in year 1 and then they all learn the same other instrument as a big group in year 2 or 3 - seems to vary year on year so one year it’s violin the next cornet! And then those that seem to have an aptitude can carry on learning with a peripatetic teacher. Seems quite hit or Miss in terms of instrument choice but I guess better than nothing.

I wouldn't mind, but I have grade 5 piano (scraped...) Their dad genuinely cannot sing or play a note, and clearly I come across as a total ignoramus!

@minisnowballs this is making me laugh a lot - gotta love being copied into emails like that!

I think that whilst there are lots of instrument options at my DCs junior school, they're all run as group lessons with approx 4 per group (25 min lessons) and the groups are for scheduling purposes rather than any ability grouping so they're only really any good for trying out an instrument with the advantage of the loan from school. We used it for DS flute lessons for 2 years and then swapped him to private 1:1 lessons externally as the group ones weren't ideal by that point. I hadn't realised before then that they weren't all at a similar point - so rather than being taught as a group, they all played individually so each lesson might include one 'abracadabra flute' piece per child. For DD we didn't even bother as didn't want her having group violin lessons.

The nice thing about all the music at juniors is that they run lots of ensembles - though DD hates the strings one, and its a weekly challenge of complaining about going at 8am on a Monday morning. If she can't get over it I might let her drop it next year, mainly cos its a rubbish start to the week for all of us!

Loads of kids learn at juniors and its great from that perspective, but the majority seem to drop it by secondary school. Its also noticeable that after 4 years of group lessons the majority taking exams only get to grade 1 or 2, and then when they start secondary the minimum standard for orchestras is grade 3 - so another reason why they don't continue!

They do run a super popular choir though and do things like young voices, so that bit is really good - whereas the instrumental tuition is nice that its offered (and given funding cuts and everything else state schools have to deal with I appreciate that its extra work that they don't have to do), but the reality is that the output is a bit 'mixed'.

@minisnowballs apologies if this seems a silly question, but what is a Saturday School?

In my area most children don't start lessons until secondary school. Very little is offered in primary.

Sorry- I mean like a Saturday music centre where they have lessons and ensembles together (and theory and choir). Both my dds are at cym in London, which offers this.

That sounds like a lot of fun - is it expensive/difficult to get in? Although I don't know if there's anything like that around us. I think I need to investigate a bit as I'm not sure our local secondarys are much good for music. I'm going to ask at their autumn open days, but I don't hold out too much hope!

Teapot - try googling ‘county’ + ‘music service’ if you are outside London.

Although many services are a shadow of their former selves, compared to when peripatetic teachers were centrally employed and then also signposted their pupils to the Saturday ensembles they also led, something usually exists. Some private schools may also be home to open music centres at the weekends.

DS, now just finishing Conservatoire, came through our county music service - 3 levels of Jazz groups; Saturday morning music centre; wind orchestra and then county youth orchestra. His state comprehensive had an inclusive but slightly random approach to music to complement this and his 1:1 lessons - including everything from the band for the annual show to a boys’ choir with highly competitive entry. He did Conservatoire Juniors in 6th firm, though if there us nothing else near you locally, that may be worth looking into earlier for both solo lessons and ensembles.

Thank you so much @cantkeepawayforever , that's really useful to know!
I googled a couple of counties as we're on a border, one of them has a dreadful website and it'll probably take me a while to unpick what's happening there, but the other looks like there may be a bit of stuff locally for various instruments (nothing for piano that I can see but DS has been making noises about doing a second instrument).
What is the Conservatiore Juniors?

Piano, tbh, is a bit of a pain for groups, as lots of children play but most groups only need one, and at lower levels that piano might be played by an adult. A second ‘orchestral’ instrument might open up further possibilities.

Conservatoire Juniors - see for example Birmingham Conservatoire Again, googling ‘name of conservatoire’ + junior will almost certainly bring up the options. They tend to be for quite serious junior musicians and there may be an audition.

@Teapotkitten Each Music conservatoire ( specialist university)usually has a Junior department ( JD) on a Saturday where you can apply to do individual lessons, musicianship, ensembles etc. It can be quite intense and expensive but DD loves it. Some weeks she is 8.30-6pm, mostly 9-4.30. Her first year she was 10-3.30 I think. For ours it goes on potential not just current level but others will have a minimum grade level. There is usually an audition and interview.

That's really interesting, thank you both! I think Birmingham might actually be commutable for us, certainly something to look into if DS carries on the way he is!
His biggest interest seems to be in writing his own music, and this is why he's been making noises about other instruments... he's now wanting to write pieces for multiple instruments after I let him loose browsing on a music score website, but he really needs to get lots of experience playing in a group if that's what he wants to be able to do.

Just to say that some Junior Departments have access to means tested government MDS funding which can cover fees and even travel for children to attend.

@Teapotkitten Just to add to the helpful posts you've had today i thought it might be useful to set out the different options there might be. This will by no means be exhaustive but hopefully a bit of a starting point re Sat options:

Firstly as noted there are the conservatoires. These are university level specialist music schools. For example Royal Academy, Guildhall, Birmingham Music Conservatoire etc. They generally have a junior department (or 'JD' where they take school age kids on a Sat and do different music activities depending on the childs specialism. As noted, these places are generally highly competitive. They publish a minimum standard they'd expect but for popular instruments like piano the actual standard they require is often much higher than the quoted minimum.

Secondly there are advanced training centres (I think this is right) - so CYM in London would fall into this category and the other Guildhall Young Artists centres (different from Guildhall in London) such as Norfolk etc . Again there are usually auditions (unless your child starts on one of the primary programmes) and they generally have a minimum standard, but look for potential too.

Lots of local councils have some kind of music service. Ours isn't great, but our neighbouring boroughs ones are really good and often you don't have to live in the council area, though priority could be given to those who do. Locally ours run lessons, ensembles, choirs etc.

Finally some independent schools run their own Saturday schools - one locally to us does and its where my DD does her piano lessons, but also a strings ensemble, choir and piano trio. It all depends on whats feasible locally and we're in London so there are lots of options within a closer radius than in the rest of the country (though the competition for places is insane!). There are also some music schools who confusingly call themselves conservatoires, but aren't and just offer lessons and ensembles - like Blackheath but some combination of these terms and your local area in google might yield some good results.

If composition is of particular interest then it could be worth looking into what options there are locally in any music provision for tuition on this. Also worth considering a second orchestral instrument if of interest - piano can get lonely, though we've found duets and trios to be a great addition.

Thank you @northerngoldilocks , that's a really helpful beginner's guide! I think I'll have to spend a day doing a bit of googling with a notepad on hand, so glad I now know where to look and what to search for, thank you all so much!

You may also find some holiday courses (often summer) in your local area.

This was our unwitting gateway into the county music service - the 4 day course led into conversations about where others did music more regularly, and the rest unfolded once we were ‘in the system’ / ‘in the know’.