Sen/potentially sen and scouts / guiding /waiting lists

[Summer1912]

Wondering what people found actually happened when sen needs became more evident?
Also do you feel sometimes waiting lists are mismanaged with sometimes no reason a child isnt getting in, because it's closed and you cant see your position on list.I

Would you feel you had to disclose SN/suspected.

Hi, waiting list are just a sad fact of life I'm afraid, I don't personally feel they are mismanaged but don't really know anything either way. My DS sat on a waiting list for just under 2 years. He had an initial appointment with a paediatrician fairly quickly who then felt there was enough there to refer him for full diagnosis appointment. I was advised by the paediatrician at the first appointment that is was a long waiting list and in the meantime to work on the assumption that he did indeed have ASD, so this is what I did. I told school what had been said and they immediately put further things in place for him, I let his swim class and scouting unit know that he was waiting for assesment. I don't think I 'had' to do this, but I felt it was useful and could do so discretely. When he ultimately got his diagnosis appointment and diagnosis, we were ahead of the game in a way, I was just able to make final confirmation with school etc.

Do you mean waiting list for SEN assessment, or a waiting list for the scouts?

We had a 2 year wait for scouts round here, I think they just go in order

I have a younger child with SEN and have wondered how I would go about these sorts of groups in the future so interested in responses

I used to help at beavers and cubs, so the younger end of scouts. Waiting lists were managed well, the only time we manipulated the list was to have a pair of twins join at the same time.
We did have a parent whose 5year old had additional needs, ask to meet the leaders before the child started, and it was very helpful, they told us some of the things the child had particular difficulties with, so we were aware and could assist when necessary or modify some activities They also told us the strategies for managing the child's (fairly mild) behaviours, so that there was a consistent approach to supporting them.

Also not as a proper helper for the unit but I was a carer for a girl with significant disabilities and I would take her to her brownies and then guides. The first group we went to was really large and the leaders seemed stressed and overwhelmed so we transferred to a smaller unit who were amazing.
She was always included in activities and they let her stay in brownies until she was 13 and felt able to manage at guides. She went on a sleepover with them and the trips that they would do.

As a Girlguiding volunteer, SEN doesn’t play any impact on when a child comes to the top of our waiting list. Depending on what the child’s needs are are whether they have been a member in younger session and we know the child from interacting with them that way, we may not even know about the SEN until a place has been offered. We actively encourage parents to share and diagnoses/suspected diagnoses/coping strategies with us, because if we don’t have the whole story, we can’t help. We tell our Guides and parents that it is not about stopping anyone from taking part, but about making sure that everyone has a fun and safe time at Guides.

The only time that SEN may impact my ability to offer a place to a specific girl if if her needs are so great that we need an additional adult present to keep her, and everyone else, safe and happy. We run on volunteer leadership and I cannot magic up a 1:1 from thin air - much as I would love to, I don’t have a pool of extra adults I can call on to step in. We may be able to recruit an additional adult, there may be grant funding we can tap into in collaboration with the family to pay for a child’s 1:1 from a different setting to come to Guides as well, we can invite a relative to join the girl during Guide meetings if necessary. But those things take time to arrange and can’t be guaranteed. I will do everything I can, but I can’t do what I can’t do.

Having said that, most milder SEN is accommodated as just a normal part of running our meetings, and our aim is always to enable every girl to have as full a Guiding experience as possible.

Do you mean a waiting list for Guides/Scouts? This is quite normal I'm afraid.
I'm more familiar with Guides and having SEN wouldn't be a barrier to joining and you shouldn't consider hiding that from the Leaders. It would be hugely unfair on both your DD and the Leaders. Guides will work hard to include her - they usually ask for a form to be completed by you that explains the needs etc and should work with you to help your DD access Guides.
Do bear in mind though that Leaders are all volunteers and not specialist trained for SEN so do work with them and be flexible.
There are several girls in my DD's unit with different degrees of SEN plus girls with physical disabilities, the Leaders work enormously hard to make it inclusive.

I manage the waiting list for our Scout group - the only info we have is child's name, dob and parent's contact details so definitely no discrimination. We give siblings priority then it's just in order of joining the list. I'm always happy to tell parents where they are on the list when they ask.

As a Cub leader we have had children with both physical disabilities and SEN. We adapt the programme around them as necessary. Scouts is supposed to be for everyone.

If you've been on the waiting list for a while, its worth asking if any other local groups have space... it can go in phases.

Sorry yes i mean the scout/guide waiting list.
Yes a few things have made me consider whether the list may have been moved around due to issues as my youngest got in quickly yet eldest was 9. Having been on a waiting list about 5years by then. (Small area etc so people know each other). More of a pondering as the list would be long anyway, but maybe not this long.

Many children round here are undiagnosed and so if a parent hasnt mentioned anything it doesnt mean there is nothing, and if they have had the experience we did they may unfortunately then not disclose anything.

Interesting too the comment re a smaller group might work better as this one is full and could be overwhelming. I think a lot will depend on whether activities suit a child and of course that depends on the leaders.

There may be fewer leaders, many Guide Leaders didn't return post Covid. I think they're still significantly down on pre Covid levels. In which case, due to ratios they may have limits on numbers they can admit.
Whilst you may have had experience elsewhere that makes you reluctant to disclose, that's really unfair on the volunteer Leaders. Your child and other children could be affected. Saying that, you're under no obligation to do so. Girls can be removed from Guiding for poor behaviour. So if the Leaders don't know she has additional needs and can't support her properly, there's more of a risk that she might struggle and worst case scenario be asked to leave.
Don't go into a unit expecting to be sidelined or with a combative attitude.

Do you know any parents of children with sen who already go to any of your local groups? They might be able to tell you if any are particulary good for your child and their needs.

For example in the area where I took a girl to brownies, one unit was run by women who were ex-guides and were enthusiastic about arts and crafts and creative badges etc and the girl I was with loved it as she liked chatting and putting on plays etc, it was slow paced and relaxed.

The other group was run by two teachers and a DofE leader and that group was more badge focussed, they did first aid and fire safety and had more stuctured activities and a big trip to the science museum.
which the girl I was with didnt like as there was more reading and less playing. That group was much preferred by her older sister who had autism and liked being busy and having lots of engaging activites rather than chatting time.

So the girls ended up in different units which was better for them anyway