Buying our first piano but don't know where to start

[Romer5]

One of my regrets in life is that I stopped learning to play an instrument when I was young. I love music and I would absolutely love for my children to have the opportunity to be able to play an instrument. I have contacted two well respected teachers who have both advised that 6 is a perfect age to start lessons. As my children aren't 6 for another year, I wondered if a piano at home would be a good way to start familiarising them. I would also love to have a go at learning how to play it using an online course. What kind of thing would I want? I don't want to spend too much but would like something that has the right amount of keys and the right sound. Are electric pianos any good or do they sound like they keyboards from school? I often see beautiful pianos advertised for free on marketplace but imagine retuning them would be very expensive. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Be very, very wary of second hand cheap pianos. They can cost considerably more to fix than you pay for them. If they are not in good shape they may not be tunable at all and need restringing. For reference, I had an old piano (family heirloom type thing) restored and it cost over 5 grand. The piano itself is probably worth less than that!

If you decide to buy a second hand piano make sure you have someone you trust (a tuner or restorer) look at it first and tell you what needs doing.

Clavinova type electric pianos are OK. They need to have weighted keys rather than just be a keyboard.

You could also look at renting. Long term rentals can be fairly cheap and it does not commit you as much as buying something, if it really takes off for you all you can upgrade to a better model.

Regular retuning isn’t expensive, about £50 once a year or so. Although I take the point above about knackered old pianos!

I would have thought the space required is a key deciding factor - pianos take up more space than keyboards that can be stored away.

We bought a digital piano for my son, after borrowing one for a year off friends to make sure he was serious about it. It's brilliant. Weighted exactly the same as a proper piano but doesn't require the maintenance and is the size and weight of a keyboard rather than a piano so he's got it in his bedroom. It cost £400 but they do seem to really hold their value second hand.

Sorry, that isn't quite right, the keyboard is the same size as a full piano but has no back or bottom bit so much easier to store and manoeuvre.

And digital pianos can be used with headphones too!

We started with an older, but good, electric piano which we got from ebay, with weighted keys - it cost £150, and we sold it again a few years later when we upgraded to a 'real' piano for the same amount.

We have a Roland FP30 digital piano. It’s really good - I am v impressed at how good digital pianos are now. We bought it for my son to start lessons age around 9.

We are in a terrace and it took a while to rearrange rooms so it has a permanent home in my sons bedroom, so we didn’t want to go with a “proper” piano. It honestly doesn’t feel like a compromise.

It plays v well (we went and tested loads out in a local big music shop and that was v much worth doing as we preferred this one to another we’d been considering) and being able to use it with headphones is great. Also, it’s good that my son can record the left hand and play it back while he practices the right (if I’m not there to help). Also, while he uses it in proper piano mode 95% of the time, it does have an option where you can invoke eg string orchestra, which hugely amuses him when he plays his pieces in different “voices” for fun sometimes.

Try some out - definitely not like the old keyboards at school. The keys are properly weighted and the sound is good. I imagine a very experienced pianist would have their own thoughts, but for our purposes it is really great.

I have a Casio digital piano, just started learning in January and decided on digital with weighted keys and a stand mainly because I don't know enough about "proper" pianos and risked buying a dud.
They're inexpensive and ok to learn on, I'd love a nice upright or a baby grand one day (but I've only recently passed grade 1 so I'm a way off being able to do them justice!)

I returned to playing piano last year and am at a reasonable standard. We have a piano chat thread on here for adult learners. I bought myself a Kawai digital, and it’s really lovely, properly weighted keys, feels wonderful to play, and being able to play with headphones and not bother anyone else is a massive advantage. There’s really nothing wrong with good quality modern digital pianos for normal home use now, and they are fine for learners.

We have a very well known and experienced piano teacher in our area and we asked his advice. He knew of a local piano shop doing 0% credit so got one from there.

We had a basic accoustic but gave it away because it wouldn't stay reliably in tune so now have a Yamaha clavinova. Dh would love a proper accoustic again but the upkeep is not cheap.

I have a rock jam keyboard (88 keys - weighted) and am learning with the Simply Piano app (first month free with the keyboard purchase). In a nutshell, the app guides the learning through listening to what is being played and scoring/guiding accordingly. It quickly progresses to playing songs (contemporary and otherwise).I am absolutely loving it - I'm a rather cough late learner but am totally hooked.

Family of piano players here. I would recommend going to a specialist piano shop and choosing a 2nd hand piano from there. They will have made sure that it is fully functional and if any problems arise, you can go back to them. 2nd hand pianos can be even better than brand new ones these days - e.g. because they were made in Germany with quality materials and workmanship, not in India by the lowest bidder.

I wouldn't recommend online courses. There is no substitute for a teacher sitting next to you, who can hear every nuance and whose playing you can imitate. During the lockdown, my lessons went online and they were practically useless.

I would also recommend a real piano. Electric keyboards can't replicate the feel and resonance of a real piano. We also have an electric piano with earphones, but that is used only when one of us will work on a difficult piece for hours on a Sunday, for example. The real playing, with the nuances and emotion is done on the real piano.

I second @CoteDAzur

An electric piano, good as they are, is not the real thing. You can't make the same sound and you don't get nearly as much joy out of it.

Strongly advise against online courses, specially for beginners. You need solid technique to build on, you can't get that without a real person giving you feedback and picking up on things.

You can get some great second hand pianos from a specialist shop, rental is a good idea if you don't commit to buying. I know that if someone say goes on a work placement for a year abroad, they will rent their piano out through a piano shop while they are away at really reasonable rates.

I thought it said 'Buying our first potato' 😂

I like my Yamaha DGX660.

I think it also depends on your house and where the piano could go. We are in a terraced house, and the only place a piano could go was in front of a radiator. We also only have one living room, where the piano is. We have a Clavinova. It had taken DH from complete beginner to grade 8.

What is their reason for saying 6 is the perfect age?

The general rule for learning music is the younger the better. Starting at 3/4 is more usual. 6 seems quite late.

Retuning isn’t a major cost. They are pretty intricate and things like refelting or replacing hammers etc can be costly. Better to buy second hand from a reputable showroom which will come with a warranty. Or rent to begin with.

I can understand why people like the idea of an electric piano as it’s easier for home life. But it is a significant compromise on the real thing.

As a mature student you could try some online teaching, although I have my doubts it will be of much use, but I definitely wouldn’t encourage self exploration for your kids as they will learn poor habits.

You don’t say where you are but there are quite a few specialist showrooms. In London I can recommend Steinway in W1 who do new and used pianos and Morley & Co in Lewisham.

Age 3/4 isn’t usual. I think it more 7 or 8.

Real pianos don't come in small sizes so age 3 is quite young- fingers might not stretch that far. Some children start violin at 3/4 but not many other instruments. At that age age singing and percussion instruments are usually recommend in a general fun session. Unless you are planning to be a prodigy, they will learn plenty starting at 6/7.

If you’ve got the space and a good place in your house for it, would be lovely to get a second hand real piano. But if you’re unsure about where it might end up living in the house, or if you are in a terrace with thin walls, or you’ll like the facility to be able to be able to move it around easily or record one hand while you play back the other, then a good weighted keys electric piano is totally fine. You are all potential beginners - you’re not trying to buy a piano for an experienced music student. It’s really not going to be a significant compromise. It’s a very good compromise, with a lot of advantages as well as disadvantages.

I played piano and guitar as a child, and I loved practicing guitar much more because it felt more private. I could play quietly to myself in my room and knew the whole family couldn’t hear my playing over and over again. My son is able to have his piano in his bedroom because it’s electric, and he plays it so much for relaxation, he can play it out loud, or turn the volume down and play quietly, or put headphones on. I’d have loved to be able to do that, though I loved our ancient poor quality actual piano too. Go and try some out and see what you think!

My dd is grade 7 and manages fine with the clavinova. She does have her lessons on a real piano and says you do have to make adjustments but it's fine.

Get an electric. We have a real piano and it's absolutely lovely, but I definitely think there is a place for electric pianos, and in your situation I think it would be better. They are smaller, don't require maintenance, can be played with headphones when appropriate and would almost certainly be easier to sell on if you/your children don't take to it. We have a fairly basic Kawai electric as well as our main piano. We just bought it as a stand in when our real piano was away being restrung and did intend to sell it afterwards but DS wanted to keep it, so he can play in his room with headphones on if he wants, plus it will fit in the car so we've taken it for him to play in old people's homes etc which obviously you can't do with a real piano. It's proved a useful buy.
As a PP said, if you do buy a second hand acoustic piano it is a very good idea to get someone who really knows what they are looking at to check it over first. Even if it's free. Otherwise you may very well end up with a heap of useless junk sitting in your house. People always say "oh it's not been played for a while but it will be fine after it's tuned" and to be fair, I'm sure they often think it's true. Unfortunately, it frequently isn't.
We are good friends with our piano tuner/restorer and he says his heart sinks whenever he gets a call from someone saying they've picked up a free piano that "just needs a quick tune" because more often than not he is going to be breaking bad news when he sees it. Or us going to be landed with a grumpy customer who doesn't understand why he can't just pop in for half an hour and have their old upright, that quite possibly wasn't a high quality instrument when new and has just spent the last 20 years unplayed and sitting next to a radiator, sounding like a concert grand in one tuning.
Remember that in the past, pianos weren't luxury items and huge numbers of cheap, mass produced instruments were sold, particularly in late 19th and early 20th centuries, much in the same way as TVs are now. People buying old pianos often think they are getting valuable, antique items but really they are frequently buyjng the equivalent of a cheap TV bought from Argos in the 1980s. You can get lucky of course, but even if you do get a good quality instrument you are going to have to look after it. You might get away with a once yearly tuning if it's a decent quality piano, not too old and kept in optimal conditions, but we get ours done at least every 6 months sometimes more and it's kept in a room with the radiator off and the temperature and humidity monitored. To be honest I don't have a good enough ear to spot when it starts going out of tune, but DS does and he plays it several hours most days so if he says it needs tuning I don't argue. Oh, and piano tuners are a dying breed so depending on where you live it might not even be that easy to find someone.
I do think there are advantages to an acoustic piano if you're taking it seriously and there have been several occasions at competitions when adjudicators have commented that it is obvious to them that DS does most of his playing on a "real" piano (I don't know enough to know how they can tell though) but I sometimes feel that the piano is almost like a pet that needs pampering. I used to be a diehard acoustic fan, but I've seen some very good electrics recently and they are nothing like cheap keyboards. I think that for most people, especially children just beginning they are the way to go. I hope real pianos never disappear completely though!

I disagree about electric vs real pianos. I have a Yamaha CLP775. It will easily take a student to grade 8 and beyond. Its feel is indistinguishable from any low-mid range grand piano your children are likely to take exams on. It is more versatile for students who may pursue music but not necessarily piano lessons. Headphones make it great for family living/neighbours. It is much better value for money - an equivalent standard real piano would cost oodles more.

I get the emotional attachment to a real piano - I have it too! - but Clavinovas are really a very sensible choice, especially if you yourself don't play or have knowledge of piano care.

I agree that age 7 is usually a good age to start formal lessons. My children had the dexterity & concentration at that age. When they were younger they still enjoyed the piano though & played around on it

There is no way that an electric piano is "indistinguishable" from a real piano @MrsAvocet!

Electric pianos have their uses and benefits, no doubt. They are related in some ways to pianos, but they are fundamental different instruments.

One is a recorded sound of a piano, one is a piano.

Listening to a recording, however good the speakers, is not like listening to live music.

Even beginners feel this. For the more advanced, There are many effects you cannot create on an electric piano. And the feel of the keys, even the best ones, is plastic-y in comparison (which I really hate, but appreciate others are less sensitive).

You might decide you don't mind the inferior sound of an electric piano because other benefits outweigh. But in pure musical terms, an electric piano does not come close to a real piano.