DOE Bronze - first expedition troubles

[Dilbertian]

Dd has had to drop out of the first expedition that her team had planned as part of their DoE. I know 10 days is very short notice, but she is injured and unable to walk for long, let alone carry a rucksack.

I am very concerned one of the other parents wants the expedition to go ahead without dd. But the expedition is about building team spirit, reliance on and looking out for your team. Not abandoning one of them because they are inconveniently injured!

How can I bring this up without antagonising the parent?

Don’t. Leave it for the organisers (school?) to deal with - and they may decide it’s appropriate to go ahead. How long is your DD going to be out of action for?

It's completely normal practice for expeditions to go ahead without a team member. Finding another date everyone can do may not be easy. And what is someone else is injured then? If there are enough people in the team they should absolutely go ahead without your DD. I know it will be upsetting for your DD but it's just one of those things. The organisers should find her another group to complete her expedition with when she is well enough. If school this may well be next year due to the staffing etc.

I really wouldn't raise it with the other parent it's a reasonable request. Do you have specific reasons for believing they would be able to postpone the expedition, or should postpone the expedition?

Is the expedition being organised for them i.e. adults are facilitating it for multiple groups of teenagers at the same time or has the group arranged it independently?

If it's the former, I think you are being unfair to expect the whole group to miss out because one of them is injured. Your point about it being an opportunity for team work and not abandoning your DD would stand if she was injured during the expedition but although it's disappointing for her if she won't get to take part this time, it's just one of those things.

It's neither your place, nor the place of the other parent to determine whether the others carry on without your dd.

The DofE leader should decide whether it is still safe and appropriate for the team to go without your dd and be letting you all know. In my experience it's quite normal to lose a team member for a variety of reasons, and unless numbers were too low to carry on, the expedition always goes ahead with the slightly smaller team.

Hopefully they will be able to arrange for your dd to join another team, at another time, for her practise expedition and then either stick with that team for the qualifying expedition, or rejoin her original team. Which ever is more appropriate.

It's completely normal practice for expeditions to go ahead without a team member.

That! And let organisers judge. The DoE adult volunteers have had this in their diary for months & typically are supporting multiple teams on same day who wish to proceed; they can't easily reschedule or find alternative dates due to one drop out.

Disappointing for your DD, I understand. I hope she finds other fun things to achieve.

To be honest, if it's 14-15 years olds, it's not going to just be about the individual children. Trips have to fit in with whole families and their priorities. I'm sorry your daughter has an injury but it's unrealistic to expect the trip to be postponed

It is a shame that she can’t go but the school will have a busy schedule of walks/expeditions to plan for all three levels, taking into account staffing/school activities/exam timetables etc, so will not be able to move anything already arranged. All the other participants may have needed to plan other out of school events around the D of E timetable too. My DC was in a similar position (had to pull out on the day of a practice expedition) so we found a company that ran expeditions and joined a group there so was then able to do the assessed expedition with friends. Alternative was to have delayed by a year as you have to complete all the practice walks/expeditions before you can do the assessed ones.

Yes, unfortunately it will be very difficult for them to organise another weekend for your DD to do it and that's not fair on the rest of the team.

Will your DD definitely not be able to do it in 10 days time? Can they somehow make an adjustment for her (no pack or a lighter one for example)

How low is numbers too low to go ahead?

There are other teams doing DoE through the school's scheme but AFAIK this is the only team that this particular leader is supporting right now.

Someone in dds group got injured just before expedition and had to drop out. It's a shame but you cannot expect the whole group to rearrange or not go because of 1 person

There need to be at least 4 participants for the expedition to take place.

There must be between four and seven participants in a team (eight for modes of travel which have tandem).

From the DofE website. So as long as there are still 4 team members they can still go ahead. If, without your dd, there are only 3 team members left, I would expect them to juggle the group's around (assuming there are a few groups doing it on the same day). So either those 3 join a group of 4 to make a 7, or one person from another group joins them to make it up to 4 again.

The whole organisation of DofE within a school is huge. They really can't rearrange a whole weekend for staff, volunteers and students because one individual is injured. However they will do their best to accommodate your dd at another time.

@Dilbertian

How low is numbers too low to go ahead?

There are other teams doing DoE through the school's scheme but AFAIK this is the only team that this particular leader is supporting right now.

It would be unusual to have a team that couldn't go ahead without a member. I personally don't allow teams of 4 (minimum number) unless I have multiple teams that I could redistribute the remaining members to in the event of a situation like this. Also having minimum number teams is a risk in case someone is injured during the expedition. If a team member has to pull out it's desirable for the rest of the team to continue if able once help has arrived.

If there are other groups in the school (regardless of if they had a different leader) it is likely to be more common practice for your daughter to join another team when she is well enough.

Is it certain your daughters injury will prevent her from taking part? If her bag is the issue your D of E leader may be able to suggest a way to lighten what she has to carry etc.

...You seriously expect the whole expedition to be cancelled because your DD can't go?

It does not work that way. A lot of people have put a lot of time into making this happen. If they rearranged every time there was a single dropout, they would literally never go. And using the word "abandonment", like she's been left unable to walk on a mountainside or something, is, I'm sorry, ridiculous. She's at home and perfectly fine.

I'm sorry your DD can't go, but you will probably be able to find a way to do a "catch-up" expedition at another time.

It's a whole team of adults that support even one expedition, not just one person. Thru DC's school it was all teachers & school staff volunteering who I'm sure have their own lives to live on weekends, otherwise.

Also, if this is the first expedition, I assume it is the practice?

I had to collect ds from his expedition after he broke his foot. The rest of them stayed and completed it.

I believe there are some places offering standalone/independent DofE expeditions for those who haven't had the opportunity via school, it's what we're looking into atm.

You don't speak to the parents! Your daughter is injured, tough luck, you can't expect the others not but to go ahead.

I had to get carried off a mountain on my silver - I wouldnt have expected the others but to carry on.

Organisers should be ok with letting her have a lighter day pack. Have you asked about that?

Normally there will be multiple groups going out on a pre-planned weekend when done through school. Staff will be required to meet them at check points and camp overnight nearby. Camping facilities will have been booked.

You can't expect all that to be cancelled and re-arranged just for your daughter.

Its unfortunate for your daughter but this is not going to get re arranged just for her. Honestly how injured is she? I have been involved in many similar things and it's surprising how many teenagers manage to injure themselves just prior to the camping trips.

They should go ahead without her, it's totally unreasonable to expect everyone to miss out because of your dd. Hopefully there will be a mop group for those who couldn't do the other one for whatever reason, speak to whoever is organising it.

@xyzandabc

It's neither your place, nor the place of the other parent to determine whether the others carry on without your dd.

The DofE leader should decide whether it is still safe and appropriate for the team to go without your dd and be letting you all know. In my experience it's quite normal to lose a team member for a variety of reasons, and unless numbers were too low to carry on, the expedition always goes ahead with the slightly smaller team.

Hopefully they will be able to arrange for your dd to join another team, at another time, for her practise expedition and then either stick with that team for the qualifying expedition, or rejoin her original team. Which ever is more appropriate.

This.

Mine can’t physically do the expedition as she simply can’t walk that distance she was worried, in the end duke of Edinburgh is accessible for all - yours can get a medical note or meet and do the camping (depending on illness) mine is doing a flora and fauna study instead of the walk and then a short walk but no rucksack etc and they are transporting the kit for the group. They have been really good. She’s physically disabled.

In case of injury I’d expect the trip to carry on but yours to sleep overnight (if they can) and do the others when recovered!

*Mine can’t physically do the expedition as she simply can’t walk that distance she was worried, in the end duke of Edinburgh is accessible for all - yours can get a medical note or meet and do the camping (depending on illness) mine is doing a flora and fauna study instead of the walk and then a short walk but no rucksack etc and they are transporting the kit for the group. They have been really good. She’s physically disabled.

In case of injury I’d expect the trip to carry on but yours to sleep overnight (if they can) and do the others when recovered!*

DofE leaders can make reasonable adjustments for those with long term disabilities so they can access the Award in ways that suit them as they have for your DC.

DofE Leaders should not be making similar adjustments for someone who has a short term injury who will be fine to do the expedition without adjustment later in the year/next year.

My son finally managed to do his gold expedition (practice and qualifying back to back) this summer after being rescheduled several times. He joined an independent one outside of school (there's loads of providers on the D of E website). They had groups of 6-7 to allow the group to run if they had drop outs (with a minimum of 4).

In answer to your specific question, it's been a nightmare trying to arrange D of E expeditions during lockdown so, in my opinion, you're being very unreasonable expecting the others to pull out when they could get theirs done. Particularly if they want to move straight on to silver or gold. I'd find an independent provider and do it in October half term instead. Hope she gets better soon.