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Extra-curricular activities

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Original poster

Testing for perfect pitch

31 replies

PinotAndPlaydough · 12/02/2021 17:36

Does anyone/anywhere that does testing for perfect pitch.
DDs violin teacher believes she has it but because she’s never come across a child with it before she doesn’t know if testing for it even exists, if it’s worth even testing if it does exist and where she could get tested if it’s worth testing for!

Any advice or experience welcome. Is it even that useful a skill to have? It’s quite an abstract concept to me!

OP posts:
SwayingInTime · 12/02/2021 17:48

I would have thought that a violin teacher would be able to 'test' quite easily for it? Or is your daughter very young and doesn't know the note names? There have been studies identifying perfect pitch with non musicians but like you say, it's all a bit abstract and academic. I would imagine it would be very helpful with learning the violin though!. FWIW my daughter goes to a specialist music school and says less than half of her classmates have perfect pitch. She doesn't but has trained herself to recognise and reproduce the open string notes of her instrument for fun (they're an odd lot!).

merryhouse · 12/02/2021 18:05

It's useful when you're out carol singing and have forgotten the tuning fork Grin

Apart from that, not massively. My brother has it and when he was little he had terrible trouble every time we decided a piece would be easier for us to sing if we moved it up or down a bit.

After ten years of string playing I reached the point where I could say whether a note was A or not (like SwayingInTime's daughter).

My son developed it (found out quite by chance when we were singing in the car - "I think I may have started that a bit too low" "yes you did Mummy, perio should be on an A").

It's not a particularly useful skill but it's an indication of a good ear. I don't have it (except as mentioned above) but my knowledge and experience of singing means my sight-reading is very good (pretty sure it's at least as good as now-adult son's). On the other hand, I had a friend at university who had never learned to read music but I discovered that she had perfect pitch without even knowing that it was A Thing Grin

eroica · 12/02/2021 18:07

The only time I know of it being tested was in an audition for Chet's.

Gogglebox20 · 12/02/2021 18:08

Most singers/instrumentalists learn this...yes it is a skill but only really in musicianship. There’s no “test” for it. X

VirtualLearning · 12/02/2021 18:14

I don’t think you need to test for it? As in does a test add anything? DS has it (he’s 9 ) and it can be handy as was next door when I was trying the recorder and he called out that was meant to be C#! His singing teacher found he can sing a note if you name it. I guess it probably shows a musical aptitude

Scampersaur · 12/02/2021 18:16

It’s essentially just a particular recall of sound. It can be very useful as a musician, but most musicians develop it to some extent anyway - e.g. being able to accurately sing the note “A”. I think the violin teacher might not be great if she can’t work out for herself whether or not your daughter has it.

SwayingInTime · 12/02/2021 18:16

I have just realised I should have written 'produce', not 'reproduce' Wink.

Original poster
PinotAndPlaydough · 12/02/2021 18:18

Her teacher had done some testing and so far my daughter hasn’t got a single one wrong yet. We were just wondering if there is something more formal. I’m the least musical person on the planet and having a child who is turning out to be quite good at all of this is a bit daunting!

OP posts:
VirtualLearning · 12/02/2021 18:21

I don’t think it’s daunting and it’s just important you feel she has the right teacher to nurture her enthusiasm if she’s enjoying it? I definitely lean on DS’ wonderful teachers and have enjoyed picking up a bit of the recorder myself on the way but I certainly don’t keep up or feel any responsibility myself! Is she younger?

LolaSmiles · 12/02/2021 18:26

FWIW my daughter goes to a specialist music school and says less than half of her classmates have perfect pitch. She doesn't but has trained herself to recognise and reproduce the open string notes of her instrument for fun (they're an odd lot!).
They sound like a great lot!

Most musicians will tend to develop relative pitch and can identify notes from a particular frame of reference. I can name most notes because of how they compare to an A for orchestral tuning, even without hearing the A for reference.

Perfect pitch is really rare, but sometimes people with a well developed sense of relative pitch will say they have perfect pitch.

Original poster
PinotAndPlaydough · 12/02/2021 19:09

She’s only 9, I’m definitely relying on the teacher for advice.
I feel a bit mean because she asked to learn violin from a very young age and I said no because it’s so expensive and I didn’t think she would keep it up. Turns out not only does she love it but she fairly good. Her teacher is brilliant at finding music that she loves to play and making it fun for her. Pre lockdown it was lovely to hear her laugh through her lesson.

I don’t know if it’s relevant but DD also has ASD and has a very low tolerance for certain noises, I’m wondering if the two things could be connected.

OP posts:
Scampersaur · 12/02/2021 19:17

The teacher sounds lovely if she’s making the lessons so fun. Your daughter’s perfect pitch will be a blessing, though I think your theory about it causing her low tolerance for certain noises makes sense!

horseymum · 12/02/2021 20:59

I was also about to say relative pitch is more useful as you can do the intervals correctly. So use a tuner to tune the first string then hear if the others are in tune from the interval. My friend had perfect pitch and it actually annoys her sometimes! Join the music thread for lots more music chat, no question too daft, plenty of musical and non musical parents.

Comefromaway · 13/02/2021 20:42

We suspected Ds had perfect pitch but weren’t sure if it was relative. We were chatting to the owner of a music store and he brought up this computer programme that generated random notes and chords but played clusters In between to prevent points of reference.

Unfortunately I have no idea what it was called.

Ds also has synasthesia and it’s quite common for the two things to go together

Comefromaway · 13/02/2021 20:43

Ds also has ASD.

Londonmummy66 · 14/02/2021 01:58

I understand that everyone is born with it but not many retain it. DC1 has although it isn't that useful other than in aural tests and can be an absolute pain if working in different keys and pitches. Both DH and DD2 have taught themselves to recognise specific notes (DD an A and DH a D) and use relative pitch around that. Fortunately since my first study was a transposing instrument I don't have it.

eroica your post made me laugh as DC said the first question Chets asked in her aural was if she had perfect pitch - they have separate sets of aural tests for those with and those without.

1805 · 15/02/2021 13:37

Surely the test would be "sing me a C" and see if she gets it correct.

Or play a note and ask her what it is.

I taught a trumpet player once with perfect pitch and he coped fine. He just accepted that what he played wasn't what he heard. He was/is a bit of a musical genius though.

And he is ASD too!!

Original poster
PinotAndPlaydough · 15/02/2021 14:24

That’s interesting that he said what he played isn’t what he heard. DD told me yesterday while she messing around on the piano that the notes sound different in her head to the way they sound when she plays.
She couldn’t really explain it more than that but it sounds confusing!

OP posts:
1805 · 15/02/2021 14:29

could the piano be out of tune?

SweatyBetty20 · 15/02/2021 14:34

We had aural tests for it at school but that was 30-odd years ago now, and although it was just a regular state secondary it had a really good music department, school orchestra etc. Turns out I have it.

It’s not always a good thing - doesn’t mean you’re talented, just that you have a sensitive ear. I am a decent musician, but I’m really bad at sight singing and sight reading because I’m really bad at the rhythm side. My friend in my A-level music class was the opposite and my music teacher said if we were one person we’d do a perfect job.

The thing I hate about it is that I’m really intolerant to notes that aren’t perfect. If I’m at a concert and the singer goes slightly flat I can’t bear it. I had to move seats at a wedding once because I was sat between two people who couldn’t sing. So in some ways it’s a blessing and a curse!

CMeredithC · 15/02/2021 14:35

It sounds like she’s really enjoying music and that’s what matters at this age!

I have perfect pitch although it’s much easier for me to recognise notes in a harmonic setting rather than random single notes (relative pitch). I can do both, just that the process in my head is different.

There are no tests as such for it, except being told to ‘sing a G’ and her nailing it. This also differs from instrument to instrument - if you play clarinet or horn you might name the note correctly according to your instrument’s transposition, although that’s technically ‘wrong’ IYSWIM.

Some kids have it naturally. I believe I achieved it through solfege and always singing the name of the notes when I play, so have most people with perfect pitch that I know. I did solfege and aural training between the ages of 5-12, then 4 years of harmony and aural analysis. Every single note I play on my instrument also has a name in my head, it’s impossible to separate the concepts. When I studied music in the UK I had a really hard time singing with la-la-la. For me the only note that could ever be called la, is the A Grin

I currently work in one of the top 5 professional orchestras worldwide. Not everyone has perfect pitch, and these are some of the most talented musicians in the world. Relative pitch is SO much more important at the professional level. Everyone has relative pitch, which we use all day every day without realising. Being able to know your note’s function in a chord or within a certain harmony is much more useful than identifying lots of single random notes.

CMeredithC · 15/02/2021 14:39

The thing I hate about it is that I’m really intolerant to notes that aren’t perfect.

And this is so true. It gets even worse when you start working in different countries where they tune differently. UK is 440 for orchestras, where I currently live it’s 443/444. My instrument drops throughout the concert so I regularly need to tune to 445. It drives me nuts as I keep my instrument at home tuned to 442 so fairly neutral - but before corona I would be in a different country each week and going between all the frequencies was a nightmare. I felt like I was always out of tune!

1805 · 15/02/2021 14:57

OP - whether DD has perfect pitch will not make a huge difference to her life. It's more of a party trick. Yes it will make aural tests easier - ie "where has the piece modulated to" and dictation, but on a day to day level, relative pitch is much more useful, as others have said.

Playing in an orchestra is about fitting in, and adjusting to others around you.

TinyCake · 15/02/2021 15:00

@CMeredithC

The thing I hate about it is that I’m really intolerant to notes that aren’t perfect.

And this is so true. It gets even worse when you start working in different countries where they tune differently. UK is 440 for orchestras, where I currently live it’s 443/444. My instrument drops throughout the concert so I regularly need to tune to 445. It drives me nuts as I keep my instrument at home tuned to 442 so fairly neutral - but before corona I would be in a different country each week and going between all the frequencies was a nightmare. I felt like I was always out of tune!

This is really interesting! Thank you
Comefromaway · 15/02/2021 15:10

Dh keeps pranking ds by altering the tuning on the digital piano. It totally messes with his head!