Can they really learn a language?

[Serenabeddle]

I don’t speak a second language but would like my DS to (he is 4). Will he learn with 30 min classes each week? Any tips please?

I've never seen very good outcomes with this sort of thing ... colours, numbers, a few songs ... but everyone goes back to the beginning in Y7 anyway. it's a lovely idea but I think you need more than half an hour a week to progress. It's an option instead of childcare though and it might give him a taste for it.

No, you definitely can’t become fluent that way. However, there are lots of benefits to learning some vocabulary and it’s a very positive thing to fill your time with!

If you want him to speak a second language you need immersion - ie going to a school that teaches in that language, or a full time nanny that only speaks in that language and that they’ll be with 60% of the time, minimum. Or move abroad!

I was put in French lessons from 6 to 14 and then another year of just school French. It made yr7-9 French piss easy, it made working where most of the other employees were from France/Spain/Portugal etc a bit easier, it makes picking up and reading Romance languages easier etc BUT I am far from fluent I can't really speak I but I can understand fairly well when it's spoken to me or written.

My parents didn't practice it with me (they can't speak it either) so it wasn't used and language needs to be used, often.

I've picked up Duolingo again to try and improve and will try and find someone IRL to practice with. DD watches cartoons in friend and little by little I'm understanding more of what's going on. Did look at sending her to a French nursery but it was too awkward and not long term really.

Probably only worth trying if the teacher is a native speaker. I think the songs and so on that they would likely be doing at this age can help with learning how to make the sounds that are different from English and would be harder to learn later - but keep your expectations really low in terms of what he will be able to say or even understand... Our son is in French Immersion - in Kindergarten (four mornings per week) he picked up very little productive language before shut down, but what he does say he can say quite well because he was taught the sounds, now going into Grade 1 online he can understand instructions in French when I work with him and is building basic vocabulary but really can't say much and responds in English to questions posed in French.... So in 30 minutes per week progress will likely be much, much slower.

What do you mean by "learning a language"? I "know" several languages but all to different degrees: English in which I lecture and where I can pass as a native speaker (at least some of the time), German which I can read a novel and understand a conversation in but speak haltingly, French which I can read a novel in and hold a basic conversation in, Spanish where I can do basic conversation but am less good at reading, Italian where I can get the gist of a television drama but cannot speak at all, Finnish were I can count to six.

There is no one level of "knowing a language".

The point is- all those are worth it. Even the Finnish.

I didn't learn English (my strongest language) by immersion: I didn't even have a native speaker to teach me as a child. I learnt by formal lessons but mainly by reading books with a dictionary. Then when I finally got the chance to meet native speakers I used the foundation that had been laid earlier.

One of the main things I want my DD to learn from her Spanish lessons is the confidence to attempt it. It’s the biggest thing lacking in our country’s knowledge of other languages IMO- all sorts of non-native speakers will have a go at English and attempt to put something together. But the British just don’t have the same attitude. The odds of being understood are drastically increased if you’re willing to actually have a go.

Also the concepts of learning a language- different gendered words, for example- can be understood and lay a foundation for finding grammar easier both in English and other languages.

Fluency is not the only worthwhile goal, and there are lots of other things you can achieve in the way to reaching it.

Your best option is to find a tutor who is experienced with kids. You need to be committed fully and open to helpful recommendations and useful tips etc as well.
Hire a very good tutor, that is the key to learning. There are lots of those online, have a look at a few different tutor profiles and reviews too. You can find resources in your local bookshop, at your local library and online from Amazon and so on.
This is a useful link- www.grantandcutler.com/

He will pick some up but don’t have high expectations for 30 mins a week. I did a languages degree with one language from scratch. I found it fascinating how differently it was taught compared to school. It was hardcore on grammar before vocabulary. School often seems to be the opposite which is probably why people leave after a decade of language tuition without being able to string together a sentence.

Agree with the above that you are unlikely to get great results in terms of vocab or fluency but what you might get is triggering an interest in language learning. I spent my first 18 months of school in an English speaking primary in Wales where we had to learn a few words of Welsh. 40 years on I can still remember a few words, but more than that it triggered a life long interest in language learning, including 3 language degree. So you never know what you might start :-)

Well that’s how I started with English - we had a couple of 30 min sessions at preschool learning songs and animals and colours.

But then it took 3 lessons a week in primary, 5 lessons a week in secondary school plus an intensive course and actually moving to the UK for me to become fully fluent.

It’s great to get them started on a new language, but they won’t become fluent unless they continue doing it for years and eventually gain some first-hand experience of using the language in a community setting.

You won't get much from 30 mins a week apart from the basics, but that's still a good starting point. My dd has been in french speaking school since she was 3 and still wouldn't consider herself totally bilingual. The bit in your brain for language learning is switched on at that age so it's definitely the best time to start.

I'm English but live in France. The kids picked up French first with the child minder (full time from 3 months to 3 years) and then in school from 3 onwards. I spoke to them in English. DC2 only began to speak English when she had a child minder who spoke no French.

It's more of a 12000 hours thing than 30 mins a week.

And their Dad is French.

A mere 30 mins a week with no other reinforcement won't achieve a huge deal, but it's pretty important to get a native-speaker teacher who has authentic pronunciation. If a sound does not exist in your native language it's much more difficult to acquire as an adult or teenager - learning that sound as a small child will make it so much easier to pick up. I'm thinking of an 'r' rolled at the back of the throat in German, for example, or the 'th' sound which is so difficult for people learning English. So for me that would be the main benefit of a 30-min class so early on.
You can support that by playing videos or songs in the target language and singing along yourself.
Kids are pretty ruthless when it comes to speaking a different language (speaking as the parent of two bilinguals here) - they do it because they really need to be understood, not because it get them better marks in school later on So you need to find something that they will find motivating - like understanding a fun programme, or talking to other kids, or ordering an ice-cream in the other language.

No.
In the same way they won't learn to be a Grade 8 pianist by going to a 30min lesson once a week - that needs to be backed up with daily practice.

I mean, it's not going to do them any harm in life, but they won't learn a language that way.

30 minutes a week with nothing in between will get you nowhere.

30 minutes a week with 15 minutes a day of various you tube songs and Peppa Pig cartons en francais could give you a nice foundation.

I'm not against 30 minutes a week for primary school DCs as long as parents' expectation is real. As someone already said it's a nice way to spend their time and I'm sure it somehow simulates the young brain but it will never make them bilingual.

DS speaks four languages - two of them are fluent, one is sort of GCSE level and the last one is OK for travelling. He was exposed to the first two languages a lot more than 30 minutes a week (I helped him)!

My dd5 does a French club for an hour a week on Saturday mornings. We found it during the first lockdown when nursery, swimming and gymnastics had all stopped, she was bored and it was on Zoom and really good fun. They learn through songs and games. She knows a few conversational phrases, some French children’s songs and has picked up a lot of vocabulary and a really good accent. Most importantly she loves it and has turned down other things (eg gymnastics) to keep doing it.

It’s very little input and for classroom based learning 11 is the best age to start.
The best thing you can do is learn a language yourself. Kids do what we do not what we say.

No sorry! It won't work. From my experience with dd, kids need to be immerced (sp!) in a language where most of their peer group speak it.

Kids just don't care about learning another language. No matter how frustrating it is for adults.

Dd was given Italian lessons at daycare and school since the age of 3 (living in an italian cultural area in aus). 6 years later, she refuses to acknowledge a word of it. I don't believe she doesn't understand or speak any, but she has zero interest. May if she does spanish in the future some may lurking in her brain (maybe!).

Dh comes from a non-english speaking country. She was born in this country. We moved when she was 3. We visited his relatives once a year. She was sent to an after school club to learn this language. Again zero interest. Although she could understand bits.

Now we have moved back to this country. She goes to the local school. She is now fluent after a few months.

I expect others will have tales of their kids becoming fluent in mandarin by going to an after school club. But in my experience, it doesn't work.

Sorry I can't be more positive. Maybe go on holiday to France (or where ever). Put them in a local holiday club while you have cocktails on the beach for two weeks?