Both children love performing but cost of all the classes is out of our price range!! Help

[aladdinisalive]

I have 2 kids who both attend MT classes at an independent stage school. They are 13 and 14 now so have moved up to the Elite class for the two of them for musical theatre it costs us £650 a term and now they want us to add advanced dance, singing and acting on plus modern and ballet. Another thing I have noticed with this school is the big parts in the main shows only ever go to the children who attend all the classes as these children show commitment to the industry and obviously doing further dancing, signing and acting classes they are going to be all round better performers. The principal has said that without these extra 5 classes if my kids want to study dance/drama at 18 plus at drama school they will not be considered for auditions. Our problem is we really can't afford it for everything that they say they need it will be £1,530 a term. There is no way we can do this. I am looking at a second job to fund this but then I also can't work too much as somebody needs to be about to ferry them to classes. Also they are going into yr 9 and 10 so very important years at school but I feel guilty for jeopardising their chances of entry to drama school by not letting them do this broad range of classes. Their drama school is brilliant but mainly very wealthy families who have the money to fund the classes. I keep being told that the 13 yr old could possibly get a scholarship to one of the London stage schools but never take it further as my youngest probably isn't scholarship material and I would feel guilty for choosing one over the other. It would be much easier if they had different interests but no they both want to be west end/ Broadway performers!!!! They are both very committed and very competitive with each other but without a bottomless pit of money will they ever succeed!!! I feel like I am letting them down.

Where abouts are you?

£650 sounds incredibly expensive.

Can you speak to a different stage school?

My DD has a place at MT professional training starting next week (sixth form) until this point she belong to a volunteer run community children's MT group £90 per term, singing classes an hour a week £320 per term (individual), acting 45mins per week ( two in class) £250 per term and a ballet class an hour per week £80 per term.
Total spend £740 per term. The key things that helped get the place were community MT and ballet. Next I would say was singing and acting classes last.

I should add she now has a job at a theatre school who for 10-15 charge £330 per term for what you are getting including advanced singing and acting.
She is the class assistant for the 5-8 year old group.

that sounds an enormous number of classes.

I think I would really say sit down with your children and see what they ENJOY the most. Then look at whether that place provides good quality training in each of those things. It is quite unusual to find a good drama school that also does good dancing for example. You say it is a Stage School but we have a few of them near us and they like "all in one" classes which really end up as not being amazing in the individual disciplines. If you did a dance class at a dance school, a drama class at a drama school (or even a drama club at school could be very good quality depending on the teacher and the structure) and a singing lesson or group could end up cheaper, fewer hours and yet higher standard. Quality over quantity

Well good dance/singing tuition doesn't come cheap but that sounds extortionate. And I can assure you that lots of young people do get into good dance and drama colleges without their parents having spent that kind of money on classes. I know several young people who have gone to some of the better musical theatre colleges like Bird and Laine in the last few years. They have all been strong dancers and decent singers but none has had a huge amount of drama experience so it is obviously possible to do it without having all three disciplines to the same standard.
I would be looking elsewhere. It sounds like this school is emotionally blackmailing you somewhat. You won't be ruining your daughters' chances if you don't pay for all this. Even at 18 colleges are still very much looking for potential, not a finished product.

I know a couple of girls who got into good drama schools without doing any of that stuff.

My niece was in a couple of amateur theatre shows. That was pretty much it.

The other girl did drama at school and had singing lessons and was in a choir.

Well first, I would seriously look at the odds of this being a valid career path. Even the most talented performers need luck to succeed.

I would also look into what is available through your school. Do they have a drama department, choir? Do they perform plays? It isn’t the same as a dedicated school, but these free or low-cost opportunities can be good training.

It's not for you to decide who out of the two of them would get a scholarship or even a place. The things a future school is looking for might not be the same things your current school is teaching/encouraging so you do have to give them both equal access - that said, it doesn't have to be the frankly ridiculous amount/cost of classes your current school is offering!

I would encourage them to take control - give each girl a budget and let them plan their own lessons accordingly. They can't both do everything and that is totally OK, they need to either focus on their strengths or pick classes that will strengthen their weaknesses. You absolutely should not get a second job to fund this.

Also do they want to train in drama or MT?

IMO the potential for unfairness with a scholarship application where one DD gets in and not the other is far less than the actual unfairness of not letting either of them try because you feel that the younger DD isn’t capable of winning a scholarship. An audition panel might be looking for quite different things to what you see, but in any case, to hold one of them back because of the other’s limitations would be awful. If they want to apply, and understand that if they are offered a place without a scholarship (or without enough of a scholarship - often it doesn’t cover the full cost, and parents can still wind up paying more than they expected) it is not a viable option, then let the audition panel decide. MT is a very competitive field, and your DDs need to understand that not every opportunity will be open to both of them for all sorts of different reasons.
Re the fees at their current school, is there any possibility of helping in the baby classes in order to earn a partial fees reduction in their own classes? Lots of schools offer this. Have you told the principal that you are struggling? They may be able to offer a sibling discount.
Good luck!

That sounds like a hard sell.

My friend went to one of the top
London drama schools and the only classes she did were for ballet.

MrsAvocet

Birds and Laines I would have said were dance based with a little MT thrown in rather than drama.

If you wanted drama I wouldn’t go to a dance school.

That is an eye watering amount of money! My initial instinct with what is being asked for is the school is a massive money making machine and hardly objective in giving you advice.

I attend a dance school as an advanced ballet adult and there are a good number of children have gone off to London dance/theatre schools, practical dance degree courses. As a comparison, I think they're paying about £400 per term for a full range of dance classes, plus private tuition. Some of them have gone to broader theatre schools, but dance has been their lead skill. Many of them are taking additional private singing lessons and involved in youth drama companies too.

The problem with your children wanting to be West End stars is that they need to be good at dancing, singing and acting. I wonder with such a high number of different classes they may end up being a jack of all trades, master of none? I saw your OP mentioned a ballet class, if that is a new discipline for them, that's extremely late to be starting something like that. I have heard over the years that commercial auditions will throw in ballet as part of the process to weed out half the girls instantly!

I agree with the PP that I'd be sitting down with your girls and looking at what they are enjoying the most, what type of classes they are naturally more talented in. I'd also be having a frank discussion with the school to talk about a realistic budget for classes and how that budget should be best spent.

Seeing how the school respond will tell you everything you need to know about how much of a money making machine they are. Our dance school is incredibly supportive, nurturing. I know our Principal (who has been in business for 40+ years) would be extremely open to such a conversation, advising realistically about the potential of a child and where to focus attention of theatre school was a realistic option.

We do keep telling them that this is a very very competitive industry. The 14 yr old is better at dancing and drama and is taking drama for GCSE and the 13 yr old is singing and drama but they both want to be triple threat performers so they want to have classes to improve in all 3. The MT class just doesn't seem to go in depth enough so you do really need separate classes in the 3 disciplines, I am wondering now if when they join the elite group and it it gets much tougher that my DD may start to lose interest a bit as she is missing out on missing friends etc and up until now it has been quite easy but this is elite training which is tougher and I don't know if she will cope with all the pressure. Not that it makes much difference but my 13 yr old is a boy and he literally sings, dances and acts all day - performing is his life - he is autistic and doesn't get nervous and doesn't care what people think of him whereas my daughter isn't as confident because she is always thinking about what other think and gets embarrassed performing in front of friends. I have seen a few schools locally that offer scholarships for boys but they are the ones which don't have such a good reputation. There are quite a lot of boys at my childrens' stage school Going to email the principal today and see if there is anything she can do re: fees .

@aladdinisalive apologies for assuming your children were both girls, I have a son who does ballet. From what you've said above, I'm glad we're only focusing on one discipline at the moment rather than becoming a Triple Threat Performer! Haha!

It's so hard, through family and personal friendships at drama and dance schools, I've seen numerous people 'make it' to 18+ dance/theatre schools and then not make it commercially, be plagued by injury and a couple have serious mental breakdowns. Realistically, longer term options seem to be teaching, or having to work a normal job on top of chasing the dream. In most cases they have ended up totally skint as well. Not as if any of that matters when you're a teenager and its all you want!

I dance alongside some teenagers and some of them are certainly pulling back classes to help manage the load of GCSE/A Levels. The sheer volume of homework is so much more than we had to contend with. It also sounds like your daughter may not be a natural fit for performing if she's embarrassed around friends. Is it definitely something she wants, or has she just got wrapped up competing with her brother?

@aladdinisalive ballet is the key to MT as I said earlier it is the core to all the other dance styles. If I had had not been able to afford everything for DD the advice from MT professionals was stick with community MT and do ballet, don't bother with anything.
But you should be aware that going on further is not cheap, there Arts awards, but they do not cover full fees and the don't cover kit - 4 different pairs of shoes ( tap, ballet, character and jazz).

You don't really learn drama in that sort of class environment. What you want by that age is plays, lots and lots of plays with good directors. You might even be better angling them towards school drama to be honest. Is there a youth theatre near you? (Obvs don't know what's going on with Covid). I would take the drama right out of the equation and find another, cheaper route for that and then continue with 2 or 3 dance styles, one being ballet.

I actually think they're both too young for formal singing lessons but I know that I am very out of step with that...

I think you absolutely can cut this back and you shouldn't feel bad if you do. Also who is telling you the cheaper school has a bad rep? Is it the expensive school, or other parents who are very bought into being at 'the best' place?

Thanks for all your messages. I have e mailed the principal today regarding fees . Both children did ballet until they were about 6 and 7 lovely cheap church hall classes but then of course the commercialism of the musical theatre classes wooed them in and the chance to perform in proper all singing all dancing spectaculars. I have heard lots of people say that ballet is the main disipline that probably gets them into drama school but so many children seem to give up ballet to do MT classes. I will look around at other cheaper schools but my only concern is that they just seem to have visiting teachers and no consistency and so many children have left and come to the school that my children are at. The teaching is very consistent and the teachers know your children as an individual. I know all hobbies are expensive but the costs just seem to build up.

You keep saying 'drama school'. If they are both keen on MT then you shouldn't be looking at drama schools. Drama schools are for actors.

If they want to be in the West End in musicals, then they need to be trained in ballet, jazz, tap and singing. Possibly commercial dance as well. That's the only way they will get into MT colleges at 18.

Local theatre schools that do loads of all-singing-all-dancing spectaculars tend to often concentrate far more in rehearsals and in coaching 'elite' teams than they do on proper training in classes for a solid grounding in good technique.

What does the school mean by 'musical theatre classes'? What actual technical training is provided in those classes and in which disciplines? What are the professional qualifications and experience of the teachers? Where did they train?

Take a long hard look at the student successes of your dc's school. Do they get a lot of students into top full-time performing arts training? If so, where? And what happens to them after that? Do they go off and get jobs in the West End, or as backing singers or dancers on tour with big pop stars, or do they get contracts on Princess Cruises, or do they end up back at the school they started from, and end up getting basic teaching qualifications so they can teach the next generation of wannabe kids?

Sorry to be brutal, but this is a hard industry to break into, and for 95% of even the most enthusiastic and ambitious, it is only ever going to be a hobby.

By the way, lots of kids give up ballet because it starts to get a bit difficult, not because they don't need it. Many dance schools refuse to let kids do modern dance or jazz classes unless they do ballet as well. It has to be ballet + other classes. It really is that important for technique in the other disciplines to have good ballet technique.

How many hours classes a week do they get for £650 a term?

I'd agree with the comments regarding the importance of ballet. My daughter trained specifically as a dancer, but she has quite a lot of friends who went down the MT route and ballet was a big part of both the selection process and the training at all the schools and colleges they went to. It really is the core dance discipline and teaches them so much. If a dancer has a good secure ballet technique it gives them the tools they need to diversify into other genres later on. I appreciate that ballet doesn't appeal to everyone and that it probably doesn't seem as relevant to your DCs as some of their other classes, or as much fun, but I would really encourage you to prioritise good ballet tuition. Get the foundations right and they can add other stuff in later.
Good luck to your DCs. It is a very tough profession with many pitfalls and very few will "make it big" so its always good to have a plan B as well.There are many benefits to training in the performing arts and loads of transferable skills so my personal view is that it is rarely wasted. It is an arduous journey, that often doesn't take you to the destination that you'd originally planned for, but it can be a very enjoyable one all the same. Getting the balance right between being realistic and crushing dreams can be tricky as a parent but my attitude was that I would support my children's dreams as much as I could but not if it started to harm family life or put us into significant debt. There were a few times when I felt like things were getting out of control and I was being pressured into agreeing to things just because everyone else was doing them. It is really hard to say no but sometimes it is right for the whole family to do that. Including the children - I have seen young performers, athletes etc "burned out" in their teens from over training. Never underestimate the value of rest, and of just being a kid.

I agree with every word of @dodobookends post but wanted to highlight this paragraph:

Take a long hard look at the student successes of your dc's school. Do they get a lot of students into top full-time performing arts training? If so, where? And what happens to them after that? Do they go off and get jobs in the West End, or as backing singers or dancers on tour with big pop stars, or do they get contracts on Princess Cruises, or do they end up back at the school they started from, and end up getting basic teaching qualifications so they can teach the next generation of wannabe kids?

And stress that ALL of the above, even the last sentence, would be considered HUGE success. Don't be remortgaging the house to create two dance teachers. And I love dance teachers.