New violin for young teen - expected budget?!

[AliceLutherNeeMorgan]

Ok, I know the answer is probably “it depends”, but can anyone give me an idea of what I should expect?

DD aged 13, at last sizing up from a 3/4 size. She’s working towards grade 7 ABRSM and plays in various orchestras and chamber groups, in and out of school. She’s not going to go on and study music at uni, but will definitely keep playing for a long time to come. She’s a music scholar but very much prefers playing in a group to solos; violin is her second instrument, if that makes a difference.

I have no idea really how much to spend - it’s not an instrument for a virtuoso, but I would like it to be her “forever violin”. I have been recommended some shops to try by her violin teacher, but she is very coy about how much to spend, because I think she is just trying to be sensitive to Other People’s Money.

It’s awkward! I’ll scale up on budget if really necessary; just trying to gauge though what is reasonable/expected/appropriate as obviously I do have other things to budget for.

Could anyone give me any pointers on what you would ideally spend in that situation? I would be very grateful for your thoughts

From what you say I'd be thinking £1-2k as a starting point. Does that fit at all to what you had in mind? Several friends with kids at that stage have gone with hand made chinese instruments which were in that price bracket, apparently you get a lot of sound quality for your money. Obviously if you want to spend more it's easily done. And remember to budget for a decent bow too.

Thank you @thirdfiddle yes it sort of does fit, so that is helpful!

I had originally thought £1500 total but realised it might be a bit tight and not enough of an upgrade, IYSWIM? I have a feeling it is going to be £2500 all in, or maybe a little more. I actually don’t mind spending the money, but I have no clue myself and I wouldn’t normally spend that much “blind”, so it feels really weird. I’ll kick myself if we somehow get it wrong!

I play and I find it tricky too. Hopefully some more expert violin people may turn up. I'm going on what friends have done for DC's of similar level. Mine is just choosing a 3/4 and I find that hard enough.

Absolutely second what @thirdfiddle has suggested re both budget and handmade Chinese instruments. Have a look at the top end Jay Haide violins, they are really very good, especially if set up well. You'd have to spend quite a lot more (over 5k) to get better IMO.

However if she'd rather something with a bit of age then 1890's German violins can be picked up around that price range too and are also good value.

Now-wise, carbon fibre codabows are fabulous, even the entry level Prodigy. Again, you'd spend three times as much to get a wooden bow of the same quality.

Hi OP, I was where you were a few years ago. One thing that you might find helpful is to forget about finding her "forever violin". Your DD will be a very different violinist in, say three or four years time, and she'll have a much clearer idea of the kind of violin she wants. So you need to find a good violin for now. The whole "forever violin" idea puts SO much pressure on you, which you don't need. It's difficult enough.

Try loads - a reputable violin shop will let you take one for a trial week or two. I think you should think in terms of £2000-£3000 to be realistic (because you would have to be very lucky to get something for her level at £1500).

Are you getting any advice from her violin teacher? Whereabouts are you based?

Thirdfiddle, I'm selling my DDs 3/4 handmade Chinese violin from specialist string shop, which was a fantastic instrument which took her to Grade 6/7. Feel free to message me if you'd like to know more. Also feel free to ignore!

Thank you @doesanybodyhaveamap and @cingolimama

Plenty of food for thought there. Yes, I am really feeling the pressure, but I agree, she’ll be using it such a lot over the next couple of years that in a way if it doesn’t last forever, I guess it will have done its job!

We’re in the Thames Valley and have been given recommendations for shops from the music teacher; not really anything specific in terms of what to look for though. I have a couple of appointments for her to try instruments and will have to hope the shop people don’t take advantage of my naivety...

I agree with cingolimama about 'forever violin'. Their taste and the idea of dream violin will change so it's better to focus on the current needs.

I personally think the most important thing to look for in the violin is the sound. There are many different sounds - richer, brighter, darker, warmer, etc. Try to focus on finding the one with the sound your DD likes. If she prefers brighter sound it may be relatively easier to find a good enough one at £1k (like Chinese modern).

I would be extra careful with the bow, however. If the violin is the one that provides the sound of the player's taste, the bow is the one that teaches the player lots of important technical skills and also helps achieve better tone eventually. You don't need £££ bow but something decent enough that enable the learners to learn what they need to learn.

Alternatively, you could spend most of your budget on the violin, and get a decent carbon fibre bow which costs only a couple of hundred to start with, then when and if needed, you could think of upgrading the bow later. After upgrading the bow, if you or your DD or the teacher feels she's outgrown so needs something better, then maybe upgrading the violin could be considered? But chances are she may not need to upgrade anything if she is happy with her first violin and bow.

@doesanybodyhaveamap

However if she'd rather something with a bit of age then 1890's German violins can be picked up around that price range too and are also good value.

That's what I've been playing for the last nearly 40 years!

A good bow makes a huge difference. Treated myself to a nice one about 15 years back.

2K on the violin itself sounds a good starting point.

Thanks cingoli - we have some good options on the table already so I don't think I'll complicate matters by throwing more in!

They don’t lose their value, you can sell on if you decide to. You are not stuck with it forever.

Again it's only my experience (and I don't play myself) but if you go for a wooden bow, I believe you have to be extremely lucky to find a decent one under £1k. So a decent CF bow may be a good start, especially if your DD hasn't got a strong preference yet.

Bows are so expensive and so fragile 😣

DD's cost £1500. A while ago, she uses it in local semi pro orchestra as an adult

Bows too - i chose a good chinese hand made over more expensive ones. Tho def tempted to try the carbon fibre thing as my previous two perished (25 years apart, I'm not mean to them!) and CF supposed to be a lot more robust.

I seem to remember somewhere (advice probably way out of date with the advent of CF bows) that you should spend between a quarter and a third of the violin's cost on a bow.

Yes, it's a good guideline, however, many people around me don't seem to stick to the formula.

@DianasLasso we are on our second over here! DD has had fabulous 1/2 and 3/4's.

@AliceLutherNeeMorgan sent you a PM 😊

Thank you all for your advice! It’s so helpful to have at least an idea of what I should be looking for/asking/saying. I wish I was more competent at this stuff but I’m like a fish out of water with it all sometimes...

Very much obliged x

About a 18 months ago we had a similar dilemma for DD. With some help from Grandparents she spent £2800 on a German 1920s violin and about £500 on a bow. She knew from the moment she played the first note it was ‘the one’ and she’s still just as happy with it now.