Autumn term 2019 music thread

[thirdfiddle]

September is looming, the old thread is getting full - I think it's time for a new music thread. This is a support thread for parents of children who are into music or indeed just thinking about giving it a try.

Perplexed about starting the piano? Experimenting with ensembles? Concerned about college applications? All welcome here. Huge thanks to those lending their expertise and sage advice and particularly wafflenose for starting the threads.

So, new school year, what's new with your mini musicians?

hiding Really happy for your dd, good for her.
Can you point me in the right direction or give any info on the US system.
I'm pretty sure we'll never afford it, but dd sees it as a possibility and we know nothing.

@drabarni First thing, it's horrendously expensive but there are merit-based scholarships as well as needs-based. You are talking probably 4-5 times as expensive as the UK without scholarships: the top conservatoires are as expensive as the top US universities. Second, it's pretty crucial to distinguish between the conservatories, where it's non-stop music, and a music degree at the US universities, where half of your time MUST cover non-music subjects. Third, the level of theory in the US, per a very useful professor in one of the conservatories, on entry, is much, much lower than the UK - in Easter of Y12, DD was already doing theory equivalent to the 3rd year of the conservatory (though she has G6 Theory and is doing A-level Music and Maths).
That all said, we are lucky enough to be able to have spent time visiting the Conservatories and arranging test lessons with professors there. It's a huge commitment just to do the research.

The US timescale doesn't fit with UCAS conservatoires. Though we've had two calls to audition, we won't find out about the other two till end Jan and end Feb respectively. DD has had to accept the Glasgow waitlist place so as not to lose that, but she won't have a definite offer/decline from the US till March. That's unhelpful, and if we do pull out of Glasgow it's a little less easy than I'd like, though it's not a firm offer so they can't fuss much.
Application deadlines are end November, and the requirements are much more complex than UK - DD has four full compositions of which 3 are 4-5 minutes each; plus two essays for three of the four places, all on different subjects (what's your career ambition, why this place, how do you define artistic integrity); she had to do a short video intro to herself, a short video on a composer who inspired her; send a "transcript" which is a specific form of academic record; two references for each place, one academic and one musical... and every one was slightly different. Some require parental financial info up front, some don't require it at all, some need it only if you're called for audition.
The auditions she has are in person, so we will be scooting off to the US at least twice, hopefully 3 times (the fourth does not audition for composition, but does for other disciplines).

Our view was: if you can't get into one of these, you shouldn't cough up for the US. She's applied for the four best by ranking, but I wouldn't lay out this much money if she isn't that good. Also, she won't get a job in music if she isn't. There have been blunt discussions, which DD is cool with; and we have a back up plan if it doesn't work out.

I would start with the rankings of the global conservatoires, and then see which ones offer your DC's preferred instrument/composition/ music industry/music teaching options. Then look very closely at their websites - the costs are on each, as are useful things like how many years residency in halls they have! Accommodation is expensive outside halls. Some websites are rather offputting, but when we visited, even those institutions with websites of pompous pretentiousness were actually really down to earth and nice.
You might find the Sutton Trust helpful - they have a programme for state school applicants to the US (we didn't qualify).

Hiding

Thank you so much for such a lovely and informative reply.
It's a minefield and you don't always know what you need to know, iyswim.

I think from a financial pov unless we win the lottery or another equivalent miracle we can't afford this.
Even in the UK the cost of University is such a barrier for poorer families I think it's important for very blunt discussions, imo it should fit like a glove.
I know dd is on the Berkeley website, and has started asking questions about finances. At the moment we are telling her to consider it the same as very other conservatoire, but she is quite single minded by nature.
Plan B just doesn't exist.
Thanks again for the reply.

Drabarni interested to read that you think the cost of uni is a barrier to poorer families. Surely it's the squeezed middle who struggle most, we're expected to top up the reduced maintenance loan. Whereas less well off families are awarded the full maintenance loan, fee waivers and bursaries.

Another 'squeezed middler' over here. Although not at the uni stage. Sometimes very hard for my DD to understand why she can't take up certain opportunities and why we have to carefully pick and choose when others can do everything either because they are fully funded or are from wealthy families. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's undeserved and I fully support the charities and organisations that give funding to lower income families to open up these experiences to those children. But it's hard to swallow sometimes when your kid is missing out.

The USA universities are much better about needs based funding. @drabrani, do you mean Berkeley in California (the university) or Berklee Conservatory on Boston? I know nothing about the first but something about the second, as it's merged with Boston Conservatory which is one of DD's choices.

Our plan b is a year out and then a different subject entirely.

Boyskeepswinging

I do think it's terribly expensive, it should be free, or at least like it was for ds1.
His loan has cleared now, he's 28 and his fees were just short of £3k per year.
I think grants should be brought back too, instead of maintenance loans.
Many poorer people are also put off because they just don't deal with all that money unless buying a house, especially where we live. £65/70k would buy a small starter home here.
I do know it's just as hard for the squeezed middle though, I didn't mean to sound like I think it's just poorer people.

I'm telling dd to go for it and we'll look at the expense if she secures a place, but Im not sure if that's right.
There are working musicians who will never earn enough to pay the loan back, so I suppose that's sort of a bonus but depressing too.

This is the first year in 30 years together that dh isn't working NYE.
If you are rank and file orchestra then it's more steady and at least you are salaried, teaching likewise.
If you are prepared to be very poor then you can stick at being a musician without a day job.
Excuse my ranting, but with two of them in the family now, you can probably imagine the lifestyle we lead.

hiding

I mean Berklee in Boston, my spelling was wrong
It's just Jazz singing and Saxophone, maybe composition and arranging if it's offered too.

folk that's exactly where we are. It also doesn't help that a lot of people seem to know how to play the system. It did grind my gears when a family were on a full fees bursary for one organisation where we were paying several thousands a year. This family drove a car literally worth more than our house, she was always head to toe in new designer gear and braying loudly about their latest skiing or Caribbean holiday. Of course all kids should have the opportunities but some of us seem to be sacrificing a lot more than others to do that.

Of course a uni education should be free but we've absolutely no chance of that after the last election. At least currently everyone has access to a full fees loan. I do worry about how much longer this will be available, or certainly with the current repayment terms which are not particularly onerous compared to what they could be.

Another squeezed middle here with two already at uni. DS1 missed out on a £2,000 bursary by our income being literally £50 over the cut off. It is hard at times!

@Boyskeepswinging how annoying to have that shoved in your face!! A bit of a raw wound here atm as would dearly love to be able to send DD to specialist school but we just can't do it. At least, not without selling the home that DH literally built and bled into and making the sort of life changes that will also hugely impact upon DD2, which really does not seem right.

@raspberryrippleicecream ouch! That's painful. I have known people to refuse a pay rose because it would tip them over the tax bracket and they'd end up with the same amount or a little less.

@Drabarni sorry, been laid low with a horrible bug! If your DD is interested in Jazz then she would also do well looking at New England Conservatory (also in Boston) which has the oldest and best Jazz programs in the US. They are also rather better organised. (we're applying there too)
Berklee's website and ability to state its entrance requirements coherently is NIL but the Boston end of it (they merged) was full of lovely people. The Admissions Office is very helpful, though. We had to refer to it a lot.
NEC is much clearer. I don't know about instrumental/Jazz, but the requirements for composition were perfectly clear from the website, and you provide financial information (as an international applicant) with your application. They then automatically assess for need and merit scholarships if you're offered a place.

All the conservatories make clear that on an international student visa you can only work in the conservatory, but there are a lot of jobs available.
It's still going to be expensive - it's not just the tuition and residency costs, but health insurance, occasional flights home, allowance for emergencies, instrument upkeep (no idea about that one).
But I do recommend a really thorough read of the relevant websites for the institutions, and then a chat with the admissions/financial offices to see what might be available for scholarship in your circumstances. There's nothing to lose by that, and there is a LOT of money behind these places. They're totally used to those sorts of detailed enquiries.

Folks, we're not in the autumn term any more. New thread coming up...

Even better it's already there! Thanks squints!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/extra_curricular_activities/3782820-Spring-Term-2020-music-thread

Hi all,
We are new to the Reading/Goring/Pangbourne area and looking for piano teacher? Daughter 13 (only Grade 1!) and son 9 - very lapsed beginners over several years, trying to restart music in their lives after shifting from NZ. Daughter also plays Double Bass, no grades as yet. Not exactly at the level of people in this thread, any advice gratefully received - Rachael

Hi Cormack, if you follow the link in my previous post you'll arrive at the newest thread - maybe copy your into there so you don't get missed? Lovely to have you around whatever your kids' level of playing :)

Have you checked if their school has a piano teacher in? Otherwise - asking for recommendations from any local musicians you know, other parents with kids who play, our local music shop has adverts, maybe even local parents Facebook groups.

Hi @Cormack8,
I’d suggest you perhaps contact Berkshire Maestros as they cover that area and have centres with lots of teachers and also ensembles :) I used to live in that area but we are in Hampshire now.
Hope you get settled soon.

Hello, I wondered if anyone had experience of using computer based learning course for piano? Its for my 7 year old and for various reasons I think a computer based course may be the best thing for him at the moment. He is having violin lessons in person, but I just don't think adding piano lessons into that would work.. He is enthusiastically teaching himself piano at the moment but I think there may be issues further down the line if he doesn't learn the correct fingering techniques. Many thanks sorry to crash the thread.