Violin chin rest

[PinotAndPlaydough]

Is this the only alternative to a sponge? My daughter hates the sponge! Do you need different size chin rests for different size violins, any recommendations? I’m completely clueless about all of this.

Should say shoulder rest, see clueless!

We use Kun shoulder rest here, and yes they come in all sizes (although not sure about tiny tiny sizes- certainly 1/4 upwards)
Wolf also a good one.
Amazon/google what size you want any and violin shoulder rest.

We recently bought one that is height adjustable and can be used with 3/4 and 4/4 size violins. Think it was a wolf.

Kun here too. It is very annoying as it pings off at random intervals, but DS likes it. What does your dd dislike about the sponge?

She says it annoys her, feels funny and she prefers to play without, when she doesn’t use it she ends up supporting the violin with her left hand and her posture isn’t great so her teacher is keen for her to use it.

I'd go to a proper violin shop and get it fitted, so you DD is more confident about letting it do its job.

When it's fitted right, the violin is easily held between chin and shoulder to the point you can take your left hand away entirely. When it's right you don't feel like you are holding it with your chin, just resting your chin lightly is enough.

FOM are a reasonably priced alternative to Kun (which we have) and I found that on small violins, stayed on a bit better. But there are lots of types, so get yourself along to a luthier who has a selection.....

You might find that as she grows, she needs different types. Dd used Kun for a while, then one day couldn’t use it at all. So then used a Wolf for a bit. Then Fom, then that broke so back to Kun. Currently happily using an Everest, which her teacher recommended. Trial and error!

Talking to her teacher is a good idea; and trying things out at a shop that has a few varieties also. You might ask her teacher to show you what the violin should look like if it is being supported in the optimal position, before trying out shoulder rests in a shop.

Something I was shown on a training day recently, that I found really useful for thinking about shoulder rest selection, was to hold the instrument in position under the child's chin, without a shoulder rest, and look at the size and shape of the space between the violin and their shoulder and chest. (The shoulder should be completely relaxed, not hunched up!) That makes it easier to see whether a shaped sponge is a good size, or if there is more room to "fill up" and they would benefit from a more rigid rest. If there is little room between her shoulder and the violin then a rest is likely to be too high even on its lowest setting, which is why sponges suit the younger ones much better most of the time in my opinion.

Shoulder rests and their management still makes me nervous. I'll need to teach at least 10 years before I'll start to feel happy about them I suspect!

Interesting @Pythonesque

DS2 (as you know) has posture problems, which we have been focusing on for the last year. Going from a sponge/playonair to a higher shoulder rest has helped a lot as he supports the violin more on shoulder and does not let it sag. But now we have a different problem, which is that he holds the violin almost entirely between his chin shoulder, virtually letting go when he shifts. We are doing a new set of exercises to address this, but we may soon be back in the market for a new chin/shoulder rest

Don’t know what I am trying to say (apart from advice / thoughts welcome about DS2’s posture/shifting issues!), but it just demonstrates that shoulder rests need to be re-thought regularly as children grow and technique develops.

If it’s ok I’m going to post a few picture of her playing with and without sponge. Can anyone tell me if-

1. The sponge is ok (teacher seems to thinks so) and if I should just get her to preserve with it.
2. Looking at the gap without a sponge would a shoulder rest actually be a different to a sponge (reluctant to spend money on one for her to decide she also hates it in a few weeks)
3. This is a question from her, does she actually need to use anything? She wants to play with no support at all.

Should she be resting the violin on her forearm like that? I’m guessing no. And should it be resting in that gap between her thumb and index finger?
Her teacher is constantly saying she needs to improve her position and posture.

No it shouldn't rest on the forearm and yes to the between thumb and forefinger. It is an awkward instrument to hold and does take a while to get used to the position.

I'd second the wolf rest.
www.amazon.co.uk/Wolf-Violin-Shoulder-Forte-Secondo/dp/B0072J2D6G/ref=sr_1_3?s=gateway&crid=2S9Q20JPPPGN0&keywords=wolf+chin+rest&sprefix=wolf+chin%2Caps%2C153&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1557414156&sr=8-3

You'd have to get another one when she grows to a 3/4 size and again at full size.

Looking at that photograph, the violin looks too big for her. Have a look at this guide www.childrensmusicworkshop.com/instruments/violin/

My average sized DS2 was on a 1/8 until he was 7 and then a 1/4 until he was 9

It might be a trick of the photo though. Trying out a proper shoulder rest (kun, wolf or fom) might help her get the violin more onto her shoulder.

Sorry link didn’t work properly

www.childrensmusicworkshop.com/instruments/violin/violinsizingguide/

I hope it’s not too big! We’ve just got her a new one last week, it’s 1/2 size and the teacher checked it and said it was ok!!

As a temporary solution until you can get to a shop, you could try wrapping the sponge in a tea towel/bit of old pillow case/scrap of fleece/large sock. That might make it feel less weird. It might even make it tolerable until you size up again, especially if decoration is possible.

If the teacher is happy, then it is probably just a trick of the photograph angle. If she has just gone up a size, the sponge might be too thick. I’d try her with a thinner sponge. The teacher could also help her experiment with the positioning of the chin rest.

I think a lot of the issue is that the violin isn't actually up on her shoulder. If she lets go with her arm, can she support it comfortably in the right position, because she should be able to? Perhaps look up some YouTube tutorials with her, to look at how it needs to be positioned. And Nicola Benedetti is running a very inspiring series called 'With Nicky' - lots of it will be for further down the line, but the initial 'Basics' episode covers posture, bow hold etc. Once you've got the violin in the right place, you will be able to make an assessment of the sponge vs shoulder rest issue more robustly.

ps 11yr old still on a half size here....

My 11 yo is on a 4/4, but then she's 5'2"....!

Speaking of which, the Everest rest I said she was getting on with happily has been a victim of her latest growth spurt, so that'll be a trip to the violin shop this weekend!

DC use Kun shoulder rests which work well for them. DS1 was on a Bon Musica shoulder rest at one point to sort out his positioning - the BM rests have a curved bit which "hooks" onto your shoulder, not just sit on your collarbone area.

Shoulder rests come in different sizes - 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 4/4 - don't think they need special fitting. It's quite straightforward.

Can I also say that your DD needs to sort out her hold? There are quite a few issues going on in the photos that will develop into bad habits. Sorry. But might be angle of photo, too?

As others have said, hopefully an artefact of camera angle, but that violin does look too big for her.

The sponge will be absolutely hopeless. I'd go into a violin shop (preferably with someone who can actually play - ideally her teacher) and try a few out. She does need to sort her position out - her shoulder should be right forward, underneath the violin. As she progresses, she'll need to be able to hold the violin between chin and shoulder in such a way as to allow her left arm completely free movement. Also, her left wrist is currently flexed backwards (presumably so she can rest the neck on the heel of her hand) and this will cause her playing no end of problems in the long run.

Nicola Benedetti has a youtube channel, and this video in particular has some really good warm-up exercises aimed at children to help them with stance and hold:

(In the long run it is really important to get this stuff right - 45 years of playing behind me, and I'm now struggling with a rotator cuff injury which I think is in part down to incorrect posture... so you do need to get this stuff right from the get-go if you can).

Her hold isn’t great and her and we teacher are working on it, she’s hypermobile and I think it makes it harder for her. We will check out those videos as she’s constantly being told to change her hold

Pinot - DS2 is also hypermobile and it does make it more difficult. progress can be very slow. I would suggest doing a very small amount at a time, and not allowing the violin hold to deteriorate. The YouTube videos will help, and you may also want to explore some of the early Suzuki violin holding exercises (plenty of youtube on this too!). As @folkmamma says, once she is more secure holding the violin, you will be better placed to decide on a suitable shoulder rest.