Summer term 2019 music

[thirdfiddle]

A new installment of the long running music parent threads. Everyone is welcome from complete beginners to grade 8 and beyond. Thanks as ever to the lovely waffle for starting the threads up and looking after them for years. What are your plans for the coming term? Any exams, auditions, festivals, new instruments? Please come and chat.

Wow I’m shocked this would be required for ‘kids’ eg anything under say 16 but at the same time can understand tiger parents mights want to employ someone to do their child’s exam for them. Not something I think a child would be considering. But maybe i’m just naive ...

Fiddle I think you've hit the nail on the head re. tiger parents. And of course different cultures also have different attitudes to academic integrity. What I class as cheating is usual practice elsewhere.

My definition of tiger parents is different. IMO they least likely to employ someone to do their child's exam... Surely the parents of Tim Nice-But-Dim would be more likely to be guilty for buying good results/grades?

The culture of tiger parents is to teach kids the value of hard working to achieve the very best. So paying someone to do an exam would be completely opposite to their belief and it would be a great shame for the whole family!

i'm assuming it's a requirement because those grades give UCAS points - it's only for grade 6 and above (where points are awarded) so likely just to be a stipulation for anyone who is an awarding body for them - not because they think music students are specifically likely to be cheating. FWIW I had to provide photo ID for both my dds when applying for 11+ type exams, so I guess it's the norm. Have any of you read the book May Contain Nuts, where the mother takes exams for her daughter?

OK, maybe I had a different understanding of tiger parents. Let's just say there are parents out there trying to cheat the system. I wouldn't have believed it either until I started working in education. I have been asked my price more than once ...

magna after seeing your post and sensitivity to the term ‘tiger mum’ I actually just looked the definition up as like boykeepswinging your description was not the group I was referring to.

This is the definition I found:
The definition of a tiger mom is a mother raising her children in a traditional Chinese way, including strict rules, tough love, and discipline to get children to succeed.

Apologies for any offence caused...I can assure you, I had no race or culture community in mind when I posted the term, just more the mentality of a parent that would do anything to get their child to the next level without any consideration of others or moral compass.

Clearly the wrong term used. Please re-read my comments with my actual meaning in mind. Again sorry. It is a term I have heard banded around and clearly never bothered to learn its true meaning x

Yup, same for me. Sincere apologies if I offended anyone. I had only heard the term used on MN to describe parents that stop at nothing to ensure their child's success. Sorry again x

I've browsed on these threads for a while, but not joined in up until now. I hope you don't mind me jumping in with some questions and a long post?

I'm not a naturally musical person. I played the recorder (descant, tenor and treble) very well - was in a number of ensembles, school orchestra etc. I also played the clarinet - but only ever had about 18 months of tuition and was otherwise largely self taught - and dabbled for a while in the flute too. I play the piano to a very basic level. The truth is though that I find music really hard. Reading music has always been very much like reading a foreign language that I've not studied for many years. On first look, a sheet of music means nothing at all to me and it takes me a long time to "translate" it - effectively I have no sight reading skills at all. My aural skills are also weak and I cannot play by ear at all. This is why I never took music exams and mostly just enjoyed playing around (self teaching was probably a bad idea for me, and meant I largely restricted myself to familiar pieces, but at least I enjoyed it!) I think it is also why I tried so many instruments as it was easier to play a few to a very basic level than try to progress as the music got harder.

So my questions - is it too late for me to develop better music skills? I'd love to pick up the clarinet again, but I'm afraid that being older it will now be a even bigger struggle! Has anyone else gone back to an instrument years after stopping - especially if you were not very good - and is there any hope of me every really cracking reading music easily?

My son, on the other hand, does not take after me! He is 7 (going in to Yr 3 in Sept). He's had a fair bit of musical education - he's had percussion and musicianship classes for 3 years, is learning the recorder and has been having piano lessons (his choice) for the last 10 months or so. It seems he is doing well. We get reports from his various teachers that he is "very musical" and really understands music and his piano teacher feels he's made excellent progress as she regards him as very young to have started playing (I thought 7 was very average?)

I'm not entirely sure that I agree with all of his teachers' assessments - I see a lot of children of a similar age (here and elsewhere) who seem to be truly musically talented and/or progressing much faster (not that this matters at all, but their comments confuses me somewhat as he is only at Prep Test level on the piano, which seems fairly normal to me after playing for the time he has been). I'm just pleased he does not seem to find music as difficult as me and hope he continues to get pleasure from it! I'd currently say that he really enjoys it, but isn't necessarily passionate about it (and he'll still always choose football over music at the moment!)

Hi Caro,
Your post chimed with me; I can’t read music. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I have not got a success story to share, but have been doing research into dyslexia recently, and I wonder if you had considered that as a possibility? Some dyslexics find musical notation very difficult.

Sounds like your son is doing really well. I find ‘doing well according to school music service’ is not the same as ‘doing well and being able to participate in elite music activities’. There are a lot of kids getting school music lessons who don’t practice at home, don’t want to play, and get little out of brief lessons with a group of similarly unengaged children.

My experience is that it is important to let your child be in control of the musical direction they go in. There are many ways to be musical.
Also at the beginning of this journey, it’s not all about the speed of progress through grades. Some kids may progress quickly but not really engage in the performance aspect of music which makes it enjoyable to listen to, for example.

Anyway this is just my 2p worth from a parent with dc who in their early teens have far surpassed what I ever achieved and who are fulfilling their potential but not elite musicians.

Caroian I have a habit of lurking on these threads and then popping up now and again. This is mainly due to a complete lack of confidence in my ability. I have a Grade 8 in Clarinet, played descant recorder, self taught (mostly) piano, like you to a very basic level and flute.

My aural skills are poor to say the least - when I did exams, practice for this area was the week before. They have improved with helping ds with the aural section of the exams. (Practicing with Abrsm aural app and emusicmaestro.com)

In terms of my ability to read music, note recognition treble/bass fine, but it was only one of ds's teachers showing him (+me) the proper way to count that improved my general sight reading ability. (Ds's Note recognition was helped with Noteworks app)

There is a big difference between a 'elite musician' - performing at the top level and a good one. I have noticed more and more, a 'good' musician is in a lot of circumstances a better teacher than a top performer. Individuals progress at different paces. I have known people who have started certain instruments 10/11 and are now considered to be one of the top. Be careful of comparing your ds with others, if he is making progress and enjoying it that is all that counts at the moment. He is young - children do start younger, some of those get to a certain high point then pack it in due to being pushed too much, cannot cope with the pressure.

I would have another go with an instrument, if it gives you enjoyment. Recently, I find I am more likely to pick up a flute (or a sax due to fingering) than a clarinet. Find flute a lot easier/less taxing than a clarinet.

Thank you both. Thistly - definitely not dyslexic - no issues at all with written words - but what I experience with music is very much what I imagine dyslexia must feel like. I can decode music, but it’s painful, difficult and slow.

And to you both, I absolutely hear what you are saying about progress, comparison etc and perhaps my post wasn’t that clear. I’m not at all concerned about my son’s progress or comparing him to others and not am I hoping for him to be an elite musician. It was more a point of saying that he gets a lot of praise that I’m not sure is entirely warranted - he’s a boy who enjoys music and does not struggle with it like I do, but is not especially talented. He’s very much self led having chosen to join various music activities at school entirely himself and he requested to start piano lessons, so definitely no pressure from me!

I think I may have another go myself. It’s occurred to me that the plethora of apps and online games available no to help with music might benefit me as obviously such things weren’t around when I was a teenager!

It's never too late to learn an instrument or how to read music. I know lots of people who only learnt an instrument and how to read music once they had retired. OK, they'll never be Nicola Benedetti but some play to a good orchestral standard and all enjoy it thoroughly. Once you're feeling a tiny bit confident you could see if there are local ensembles for beginner/less experienced adults. Making music is much more fun with others and you'll learn from them. Enjoy the journey!

I think music reading is just like learning to read books - if you can decode however slowly you're half way there. The different between painstakingly slow decoding and fluent reading is just lots of practice really. If I were you Caro, rather than picking up where you left off, I'd pick up with a beginner book and work your way through quickly, using it as an opportunity to learn music reading as you go.

Caroian, definitely not too late to go back. You will not regret it. I'm a very happy amateur musician and get lots of joy from it. As others have suggested, go back to basics, you will find it easier second time round. Things like scales will really help with sight reading, as will learning to count so you are not just guessing or only able to play stuff you have heard.
With regards to your son, it sounds like he is enjoying his music, I'm just wary with mine of saying ( or letting others say) they are really talented/ gifted, they are not, they work very hard and enjoy it, the perfect combination for progress, it doesn't just happen. If kids are told they are talented, they sometimes stop trying. Maybe when he is told he is good, point out that the practice is what helps, just my opinion, others may disagree!

I do think there are some who have that extra special talent but hard work does go a long way. I would say my DD is less ' naturally talented' but made more progress through hard work and taking opportunities. DS more naturally musical but doesn't practice as much so gets frustrated that his technique lets him down.

Caronian - definitely give it a go! For note recognition, if you have an Apple device, the abrsm sightreading app is very good. It has quite creative games that encourage the development of musical memory and pattern recognition.

Do keep us posted. There are quite a few adult learners on the thread 🙂

I agree about the ‘talented’ line being unhelpful, and praising hard work.
However, I maintain that some people will find reading music that bit more difficult than others, just like dyslexics do with learning to read words. For many people it will be a case of practice, but I have seen in my dc that some just pick it up without too much difficulty and others really have to work very hard and still find it hard. Dyscalculia many also be a factor.

Definitely see some kids taking ages and it never really clicking to read music. I think the answer is more varied approaches but I take a recorder group at school and don't really have the time or expertise to investigate. It's a fun club and I do start off teaching notes then end up giving in and writing the names in for half of them as otherwise we would never get to play such fun music. Our piano teacher had one pupil who had had lessons for over a year and still struggles with notes and one pupil ( not from a musical home) who could read more in two weeks than the other pupil. There must be a certain element of it just making sense to some and remaining gobbledygook to others. Would be fascinating to know more about different approaches but don't have time just now .

I’d like to just add some kids that are naturally musical find other ways to get around reading music and therefore continue to struggle with actually reading it.

E.g. one of mine will listen to the song or teacher play the piece and go about learning it from ear. Have to say, I grew up in a family where my parents couldn’t afford lessons so this is something I did as a child. Unfortunately when I help my kids with their pieces I will play the song and correct them this way. This is something they have both picked up really well.

Not sure if I have helped or hindered them to approach music in this way. There are definitely benefits from being able to do this...

So many grammatical errors in that last post hope you all got the idea...lol... sorry

Surely learning to read music is just like learning any language. Some people are great at it and pick it up no problem. For others it's a real slog. I think the important thing is to acknowledge that and not assume that it should come easily, even to "musical" people. And don't get me started on moving between clefs or transposing! Again, some people find this easy and others don't.

Anybody else’s smallish person off to brass academy tomorrow? DS (12) is going with his French horn, he’s not been before but he’s looking forward to it 🙂

Mine's at NCO this week, Lots. Brass Academy sounds like fun, though! I'm enjoying seeing the short films on Twitter. Mine doesn't communicate when away so I enjoy seeing what they're doing.

Yes boys I suspect mine will not contact either, although it’s his first residential apart from school trips so we shall see! Hope yours has fun!