Summer term 2019 music

[thirdfiddle]

A new installment of the long running music parent threads. Everyone is welcome from complete beginners to grade 8 and beyond. Thanks as ever to the lovely waffle for starting the threads up and looking after them for years. What are your plans for the coming term? Any exams, auditions, festivals, new instruments? Please come and chat.

Hi all,I post on here from time to time. I can totally relate to those who say they feel as though their dc have "missed the boat" musically. My ds is 12,13 in June and plays violin and his teacher has assessed him as playing at Grade 7 standard. He will be doing his G5 theory in the Autumn and will then spend the rest of this year and most of next year working towards G8 with the sole purpose of gaiiing UCAS points.
Ds auditioned for JD but didn't get in. He does a lot with his orchestras but I feel he needs to make the transition to a music school of some sort but he can't seem to cope with it on top of school. I'm not sure where we go from here. Music is all ds wants to do but he can't seem to cope with practice at home on top of homework. Without practice,I don't know how he can progress 😬😩.

I don't think missed boats is a thing. They can progress so fast when they get the focus right. And once they can play the notes, so much falls on their communication skills and musicality. I've known people switch instruments at really quite old and still excel as they already have the musicality. (So taggie far from missed the boat I think your DS has a head start!)

disorganised are you thinking he may need to step back on orchestras a bit to have practice time? Or do you think it may be a transition to secondary school thing? I think little and often still holds at a high level, if there isn't time for proper practice even just 10 minutes of long notes will help.

Thirdfiddle I think it's the stress of school as ds has Aspergers. He struggles with doing homework and then doing practice. We've tried so many things but nothing seems to work. He has a violin lesson every week and his teacher is amazing but he just can't seem to cope with practicing at home. I try to help him but he can't get started. It's almost like he's scared to fail. Does that make sense?

I have to admit, I'm a bit bemused by some of the thoughts on this thread.
Bearing in mind NYO involves only a tiny number of players in any one year, it's absolutely not the case that not getting in is an indicator of future career success. Nor does not having grade 8 distinction at 10/11/12/13 etc mean you won't get in to NYO, as has been shown by callypso's DS's experience. Nor is JD/ specialist school the only route to a career in music.

There's a danger of hysteria creeping in, when things like this, and BBCYM are mentioned.
IMO and IME, ( as a performer myself, but also as a teacher and now a parent of a young musician) you can't rush progress, it's not linear, and every child blossoms at a different stage. To say that, at 10/11/12/13, a child has already missed the boat/ resigned themselves to the fact that they won't be good enough for X is incredibly depressing and actually potentially damaging.
It's ok to be ambitious, but it's more useful to have ambitions to play well, play the music that you enjoy, have something to say, musically etc, than to be first past the finish line; music isn't a sport or maths. 😁

I don't disagree with you at all. However,I don't set the standard for things like JD and NCO/NYO. My ds is definitely a "slow burner" and I'm sure that he will be the violinist he wants to be but he has to compete with 10/11 year olds who have got their G8. How do you deal with that?

disorganised, it makes very much sense, I'm a terrible non starter of things myself without half his excuse. I know at this age there's a limited amount of intervention you can do too. Do you think he might try mixing things up a bit? Do the maths homework, then 20 minutes of violin, then geography, then more violin if time? And have bite sized plans for violin - one scale, one arpeggio, this 16 bar section today, anything else is a bonus. With me once I start I tend to do more than I plan to anyway. Or even play a few scales before he starts homework, you never know it could help destress. I really hope he can start to find the school stuff less stressful once it's more familiar, I know it can be very hard with ASD. If music is his priority at some point it could be worth talking to school about reasonable adjustments - drop a subject or something? Or did you already try that?

I think the point is you / he doesn't have to compete with them, certainly not now at least. If the goal is a varied and fulfilling musical career then he absolutely has plenty of time - they all do. I have a work colleague who by his own admission messed around on violin with terrible technique until he was 15. Then decided that with a bit more practice he might become quite good. Got a good teacher and threw himself in completely- G8 at 17, did his a levels and then took a year out in which he worked super hard and practised non-stop. A year later he got a scholarship to RAM. Sadly he then got RSI and had to stop playing, but he is absolute proof that just because you're not a prodigy at age 10/11 doesn't mean it can't be done. Plus, we all know those kids who have peaked at a young age, become disillusioned and given it all up! A slow burn, commitment, musicality and a true love of the music is far better imo x

Also sorry but that''s the exact opposite of how this thread reads to me. We're currently discussing the very fact that there is no one linear route to success
For many of us we might be the only parent at school with a musical kid and this thread is a lifeline to be able to discuss and share. For example, I know no parents in real life who's kids are interested in NYO. I've never sensed "hysteria" on this thread, just genuine good wishes for successes and commiseration and sympathy when things don't go so well.

I always say this on these threads.
My dh is a world class musician, very much in demand for what he does.
he first took up his instrument at 16 never playing anything before. He took grade 6 as the min requirement, went on to music college gained a first and the memorial prize for his year.
He's had students who have similarly not got it together until 16 and managed to gain places in conservatoires, including Juillard and Berkeley.
I also know a string player who started at 14 and now as a youngish man (24ish) plays in The Halle.

Thank you Boys for saying what I couldn't seem o get out!! You've hit the nail on the head!! And thank you to everyone else for listening to me ramble on!!

Interesting discussion! My DS2 is lucky enough to have a lot of musical opportunities but fewer instrumental opportunities than others of his age. He can’t do junior county orchestra or jd, for example, because of his chorister commitments. So it is heartening to read stories about people who have ‘made up for lost time’ later and reached the highest levels. I am not saying that DS2 has the capability or commitment to reach these levels (far too early to say!). But it is great to read that anything is possible.

@alsoplayspiccolo (as always) puts it so well:

It's ok to be ambitious, but it's more useful to have ambitions to play well, play the music that you enjoy, have something to say, musically etc, than to be first past the finish line; music isn't a sport or maths

disorganised, he only has to compete with 10 year olds with grade 8 when he's 10 and IF he chooses to; by that, I mean, grade 8 at 10 is only relevant at the time - when everyone's 18, it make little or no difference what age they got grade 8.
A career in music is hopefully lifelong, so age becomes irrelevant after a certain time ( other than wanting to be a child prodigy!)

Going for the specialist routes certainly helps (otherwise why do they exist?) but having seen many talented children in and out of the specialist education, I can say very confidently that the depth of the progress is really up to the child. Just because someone is at a specialist school doesn't mean she or he does more practice than those who aren't. I know those who do very little at specialist school and also those who commit hours of daily practice while attending at academic school. I must say those who do very little at specialist school probably won't last and they would eventually move out of the system or even worse give up music... But what I feel is really it's who you are that count most. Some children suddenly wake up mid teen and put all their energy to realise their dream, some children achieve very high very early and burn out or find new interests, or some children achieve high and keep working hard.

As some posters said earlier, the point is to focus on your own goal and don't compete nor compare with someone else who is standing on a different ground. If music is about winning, where have all those winners of prestigious international competitions gone? Many of them are leading a fairly modest lifestyle after such a glorious achievement and inhuman like commitments. They should love what they do so they carry on no matter if you win or not. Hence, it doesn't matter when you reach X and Y.

Unfortunately the issue is that they do have to compete a lot of the time. Dd(12) thinks she’s a failure because she’s not g8 yet (she’s taking g6 violin in 2 weeks, she’s almost g6 standard viola after a year and she’s going to be doing g8 trumpet witching 2.5 years of starting)...but that’s not good enough to be noticed at her school. There’s plenty of girls in year 8 with g8 on multiple instruments (that they got in y6) who are at jd...dd doesn’t even get noticed.

I really struggle to motivate her with this in the background- there is a (justifiably) huge amount of “what’s the point”...she will never get to play in a concert - she’s not even allowed to do chamber groups (scholars only)...

To be fair she doesn’t want s career as a musician - but she loves performing and would love to have more chances to do that!

Back in beginnerish land DD continues to amuse us. There were some minims she kept shortening, but today they were full length, so I said that was nice. "Oh yes, if I forget then I have to think about clinging on to a tree so I don't fall off." Well you could just count but y'know...

Sheesh Petra, that's a crazy high standard. Not good that chances are restricted to scholars only, I think that's poor practice on the part of the school. For the money you pay for private, make some opportunities; lunchtime concerts, playing in assemblies, whatever. If each music teacher coordinated one thing I bet they could fit in everyone who wanted to perform over the year.

Wow, I guess it must be hard when you are surrounded by so many good young musicians. I know how many in DDs council orchestra have grade 8 because it gets announced and they get a nice cushion to sit on. This year, a grand total of ....1! I think they may need to up the incentive!! They are still trying to develop the music service after years of underfunding and lack of ambition. Hopefully it will continue to improve. We would love to have even a handful of children playing at that standard.

I wish!!! It’s actually worse for some of the scholars who are not the “star” pupils...it doesn’t matter how hard they work they will never get picked for things...even if they play better!

Nosebleedboy (NBB for short) is very firmly in the late developer camp...

Didn't start playing at all until the age of 8.

Didn't have a lesson on his own until 10.

Didn't join any kind of musical group until going on 11.

Didn't take any exams until the first few years of secondary, and has only taken 6 in all, across 2 instruments - one G4, 1 G5, 2x G6 (needed for senior county ensembles, which he wandered into along the way) and 2x G8 (because he decided after GCSEs that he'd like to go on and do music, and he and his teacher decided that if he was going to do so, then getting G8s would be handy).

Did the 2 G8s aged 17, in two adjacent terms of Y12. Did a late audition for JD in his specialism (not classical) in the summer before Y13, and auditioned for full-time conservatoire courses in the autumn of Y13.

Got into his first choice, with a choice of which of the 2 instruments he would like to study.

It's not always comfortable, doing things 'by the whirlwind' rather than 'by the normal route'. But it's certainly possible....

Disorganised, I remember you very well. If he considers music career and doesnt go to a JD or music school then a GREAT( passionate, good music career guidance) teacher is needed, or a “mentor”. Have you tried to contact teachers from the JDs. Children at music school also learn various other skills and knowledge in music in general on daily basis, you would need to find a way to help him with it too. I met a very popular violinist(got to know him by accident and he only started playing at 13, he doesnt have student as he tours alot(and I dont think money matters) however he did mention that he’d like to “mentor” my daughter with occasional lessons. We have had a couple, the sessions were amazing. My daughter doesnt aim high in music at all though.

Some children suddenly wake up mid teen and put all their energy to realise their dream

Yes, that would be my boy - just substitute 'late' for 'mid teen'! Though by the time he communicated his dream to us he had researched it, decided on his order of institutions to apply to, knew the requirements and had worked out a timetable for exams etc ... so I suspect we were rather late to know, as he wasn't sure we'd approve!

Love of music, commitment and focus-
I reckon that’s it- it doesn’t matter what age you started or what jd, music school, school you went to!

I said there was a danger of hysteria; the sense that if some children got grade 8 at 9, that means our DC need to be taking it at 8...7...where does it end?
The only thing that has driven down the age of such 'achievements' is the idea that music is a race to the top. To me, it's insane to think that a child taking grade 8 at 8 is a better musician than a child taking it at 15, or is destined to be so in the future.

To me, it's insane to think that a child taking grade 8 at 8 is a better musician than a child taking it at 15, or is destined to be so in the future
Err ... not aware that anyone ever said this or implied this on this thread? As clearly that is untrue?