Is ABRSM marking becoming v erratic?

[PantTwizzler]

Dd has just got her grade 8 piano result back. She got 109. When she did a mock with her (very experienced) teacher, she got a high merit. She came out of the exam feeling like it had gone well and is extremely disappointed. We don’t have the mark sheet yet but raw marks only. Apparently she failed two of her pieces.

We need to see the mark sheet before deciding what to do but this is just to ask whether others have found ABRSM marking increasingly erratic. Incidentally, another of the teacher’s pupils got a very similar mark for grade 5, and teacher said he didn’t even deserve to pass. My elder daughter passed her ARSM Dip on the same day and she was frankly very lucky!

I’m wondering if examiners are sometimes harsher with piano because they are all pianists. When the same dd does bassoon exams she always gets a merit or distinction and I don’t feel she’s significantly better at bassoon.

Apologies for long waffle!

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you hope she'll fare better because it's not a special visit, Aquifolium?

Dd’s teacher doesn’t like special visits because she thinks they are examined harder than the general sessions. I think it is because of a high expectation of examining at a music school, whereas the general session is a mix of different teachers entering pupils. But I might be wrong. Any one else have anything to add to this theory?

Interesting. Both a music school and jd I know of don't arrange a special visit. If a teacher and pupil decide to take an exam, they have to go for the general session. But it's simply because many of the pupils don't take exams so no point of arranging it. I know a choir school does it and also I know a private teacher who arranges a special visit at her home every year. I don't think they are particularly concerned about the possibility of being treated differently.

I honestly don't think where you take your exam should make any difference - the examiners have a criteria they mark against, and that doesn't include comparing one candidate to another, or having a different expected standard because of the location of the exam centre.
Examiners have so little time in exams to write their comments - the early grade pieces are over virtually before they've begun, so the examiner can only comment on what they hear, within the context/ peramiters of expectation for that grade.

I think that we need to remember that all examiners are human, and that means they have personal opinions which may be reflected in the marks and comments they issue.
ABRSM don't use specialist instrumental examiners, because their mission statement, if you can call it that, is to judge musicianship and overall impression, not technique.

I did hear the tendency of the examiner's harsher marking for their specialised instrument. So brass players mark harsher on brass and so on. Not sure how true it is but a few teachers claim so. I won't be surprised though, as examiners are human after all.

I have worried about the special visit thing too from the sense that DD goes to an independent school with an active music department- they have a 2 day special visit every diet of practical exams- the last couple of signing grades she has done have been marked very harshly and I do wonder why......

It does make life much easier when taking exams and I don’t relish the possibility of going back to what she did in junior school days when I had to collect and take her to a general centre (my nerves were worse than hers!) but I’ve now got her an applicant number and am considering it.

Hmm, so mixed reviews on that one. I’m not surprised; I think it depends on the examiner. Some will be able to be fair and very straight down the line, but others will waver with mood/ had their lunch/ been offered a tea. Etc. Like a pp says, human nature.

I wonder if the addition requirements (not ending in9) mean that examiners write their comment, realise it adds up to be wrong number and then put a number which will add up to something allowable.
I have also noticed the comments not really matching the numbers too.

coco - we’re the same. DD takes her music exams at school and I always wondered if this made a difference. Mind you she came out of her last exam saying she badly messed up her scales - no mention of it in the comments but there was a comment about mistakes in the sight reading which DD had said was pretty easy and got through no probs!
She’s skipping a grade on each instrument now (thankfully!) so we’ve had a bit of a break and are exam free until Christmas. Yay!

DD had another exam today. Got a text saying she messed up some of the scales and unaccompanied piece- jeez! Same here- no more exams for a while.

Still waiting on a response from ABRSM to my marking queries from the last exam in February.......

Watching with interest, as DS1 has his violin grade 4 next week. He rather scraped through grade 3 and his teacher thought he should have scored higher, but I put it down to silly mistakes on the day. He has done a lot more practice this time so fingers crossed, though I wouldn't say he's a gifted musician.

They are very variable quality and I rather suspect for grade 8 it is also a matter of taste and opinion / interpretation. We had this with french baroque woodwind ( recorder) - we’ve had one child where it was appreciated and one where it was clearly not understood at all !

Well I know this is old but our latest result kind of bears out my theory. Dd got her bassoon grade 8 result today: 135! We are so delighted. But... she’s not that much better at bassoon than piano. It’s all very strange.

A bitter of 117 G8 piano here as well, failed in scales badly pulled the marks down. She hates scales ever since so this wasnt a surprise, we thought of Trinity however still stick to ABRSM. She said she wont resit for better mark rather than just move on to diploma, hopefully in 3 years. She is not going to a music school or being a music scholar so absolutely her own choice, plan of next step from now on.(11 yrs old, going to yr7). To be honest, my focus has now moved to my 5 years old, who is everything opposite of my 11yrs old.

I think someone commented about the theory that rare intruments score higher?
Well, dd2 set two exams on the same day. Apparently examiner was specialist in instrument B (fairly rare instrument). Dd got 120 for instrument A (very common) but 135 on instrument B. Dd1 also sat exam on same day and got 120. Not so common instrument and was a lot less prepared as dd2.

Well, I never did get a response from ABRSM to my comments on G6 singing marking. DD just got a 122 on g5 oboe- feeling a bit meh about that but probably fair- haven’t seen the marking sheet yet.

I am becoming v disillusioned with the whole exam conveyer belt......

DS sat 2 grades on the same day in December (alto sax and violin) and scored exactly the same overall mark, despite one sounding much better to me!
He has just done the same this month, so will be interesting to see the results.

BettertoChenge, I remember you asking piano condition at exam centers a while back. 145 for grade 8 piano is an amazing result. Well done to your DS.

Hey Green, just popping on to say hello. G8 piano at the end of primary isn't too shabby! If the scales brought the mark down, the pieces must have been solid.

Thank you Niggle, 2 pieces were good, she loves them. Failed scales and sight reading hence the mark. She knew it on the day though so it wasnt a surprise. Now just hoping no scales from now on ha ha ha.

Onwards and upwards! As you know I have another younger one as well, and frankly I don't know if I have the energy to do the music journey again!

Yes Niggle I do remember you have two daughters like mine who are playing and the elder one is similar age to mine and also plays violin and piano.

To be honest, music has been most enjoyable to us all, both my husband and myself who dont play at all, werent interested in classical music now have learnt loads the last few years since my elder daughter started especially through the Orchestra that she plays in. I dont know what to do with my second yet, for now the convenience is sharing lessons with her elder sister, it works in terms of logistic and cost. She practices without any nagging though and she plays by ears well, she couldnt read any music though even the teachers have tried to show her, very opposite to her sister.

@ magnaconcordia, Thank you very much for your help and info last time. Your DS must have a very happy year of music in his new school.

Oh the rare instruments theory is interesting. DS took the same exam on two different instruments on consecutive days, same examiner - he got a couple more marks on the rare instrument despite the other being significantly better prepared. But then maybe I just don't recognise the difficulties of the instrument and examiners are trained to.

@BettertoChange 😊