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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

Original poster

Music teacher - who is right?

59 replies

Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 10:29

I am ready to admit it’s my fault as a mother, but would like to have an independent opinion. DC is getting ready for a grade 5 music exam. Exam is in one week, the teacher just discovered that DC does not know all scales and they have not yet played all the pieces through with accompaniment. The teacher told me off for DC lack of knowledge, saying they had to learn the scales of their own accord, that DC is not good with listening to instructions and have not made much progress on their instrument and basically going to get a pass and it’s all our fault because DC is not practicing enough at home (which is not true and they practice a lot, but often not sure what they are doing).

So I guess my question is - do DC learn scales without any instruction from teacher? Is it normal to play the piece through for the first time with accompaniment during the exam (till now only playing small bits of various pieces, never start to end). Is it normal to have a 10 minute one-off introduction to aural part of the exam because they did aural in previous grades and therefore don’t need further instruction? I am not musical and out of my depth so not sure what I should expect really.

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SwayingInTime · 14/03/2019 10:33

I think it depends if this is the same teacher they did grades 1-4 with? But not normal in my experience, no.

Reallyevilmuffin · 14/03/2019 10:36

Instrument type might help here. Piano I did to 5 and was not considered for the exam until I had done all the scales. Once I was I bought the pieces music and chose 3, but of course this is unaccompanied. I would imagine bit weird if never played accompanied until the exam mind.

Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 10:36

They been with this teacher since age 3. DC are of mid-primary age.

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Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 10:37

It’s not piano, it’s an instrument that is played with a piano accompaniment.

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Wafflenose · 14/03/2019 10:53

That's bad practice. The child should have the scale list and know what's required, but the onus is on the teacher to teach them and test them. I hear some scales in every lesson. Nothing wrong with a pass by the way - that's what most people get! - but if the accompaniment is unfamiliar, I suggest finding a recording of the pieces and listening to it lots NOT - and book a rehearsal with the accompanist. I would be looking for a new teacher too.

Grade 5 aural is very similar to grade 4, so it might be that 10 minutes was fine. There's no 'normal' here but I believe you can also practise the tests online and via an app (which I have never used tbf).

Wafflenose · 14/03/2019 10:54

NOT should have read NOW!

QuietlyQuaffing · 14/03/2019 10:55

I think you know the answers to all these questions. Of course children are meant to cover the exam material with their teacher. We've not had much aural practice in lessons but the teacher suggests an app we can use. Aural gets more difficult every exam so of course you can't just rely on what you did for G4.

Also if they haven't done scales and aural, have they practised sight reading, and do they know what all the symbols on their pieces mean?

At this stage I would try to bite back your anger and see if you can book another lesson or 2 with the teacher to cover this material, including playing with accompaniment. Sit in on the lesson so you can reinforce what DC is told in practice sessions. Quash any notions of "only a pass" - a pass is a G5 achieved and cause to celebrate. Then find a new teacher and a practice book.

Playing with accompaniment can be difficult to practice if the teacher doesn't play piano, but we've always had one practice with the accompanist (which we've payed them for separately) before the exam.

We have had a teacher who expected DD to learn G1 violin scales without seeing them written down. She didn't really know what a scale was and couldn't remember them from the lesson, so practised them wrong and felt very out of her depth. I was quite cross about that at the time, it really knocked DD's confidence. But this is a whole different level.

Totalshambles · 14/03/2019 11:02

I think it depends on the relationship you have with the teacher and the style of their teaching. I made sure the scales were there and I organised some separate aural sessions with a specialist in that. I also always attended the lessons and if the teacher isn’t able to accompany the child I would organize some sessions with whoever is going to be accompanying on the day - well in advance of the exam. Additionally the child should have performed the pieces lots in order to ensure it is fluent and they are confident with it. I don’t know many teachers who would allow a child to take the exam with pieces they hadn’t actually performed to an audience (let alone played through).

I think you need to maybe have a conversation with the teacher re the division of responsibility - so you know what you need to do. And I would pull out of the exam as it’s not fair to the child to go into an exam without knowing scales and pieces inside out. There is always next term and it’s no big deal to wait a few months in the scheme of things.

Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 11:04

Thank you for your replies! I genuinely not sure if the teacher is in the right or wrong. I asked another teacher (different instrument) and was told that she never teaches her students scales either, it’s something they have to work out for themselves. My older DC had a brilliant teacher who always spent lots of time on scales and they played pieces with accompaniment for months before attempting exams. They got a distinction every single exam they took (skipped a few). Unfortunately we had to move area and this teacher came recommended.

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TooDamnSarky · 14/03/2019 11:04

I'd be looking for a new teacher and withdrawing my child from the exam.

PetraDelphiki · 14/03/2019 11:12

Agree with sarky it is absolutely the teachers responsibility to ensure scales and aural are learned and that pieces have been played with accompianist.

Dd does 3 instruments- all teachers cover the scales. We have a separate aural teacher to make sure it gets worked on properly, and there’s a full lesson length run through with the accompianist before the exam. If not two!

While I agree a g5 pass is is still g5 I wouldn’t enter if you know they are going to fail the scales/aural...it will knock their confidence.

Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 11:15

DC got a distinction for their grade 2 with this teacher, but at the time the teacher spent lots of time with them on scales and pieces. Can’t remember now about playing with the accompaniment (the teacher also plays piano). Grade 3 and 4 DC got a merit, scales were still checked by the teacher and I remember a few runs through with the accompaniment, but on the day DC was feeling a bit unprepared and the comments they got was complete lack of dynamics in the pieces. Now for grade 5 only a few scales were shown, no playing through with accompaniment, just working on bits here and there. I was under impression that the teacher obviously had a plan of progression and will address all the points in a due time, but just realised that nothing can be done in just a week before the exam...

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PetraDelphiki · 14/03/2019 11:33

Then withdraw from the exam. Better to do it another time when you’ve sorted out the issues!

PCohle · 14/03/2019 11:34

I think it's reasonable to expect kids to do a lot of the leg work on learning scales themselves but I would absolutely expect a teacher to be checking progress regularly and making expectations very clear.

I would also expect DC to have played pieces through with accompaniment before an exam although I have generally arranged that separately. However DC's teachers always had input into that and sometimes attended the practice.

It sounds like the teacher has been caught out a bit and is trying to pass the buck. Does your DC listen well generally? The only thing I can think of is that the teacher has been reminding your DC to stay on top of these things and it's gone in one ear and out the other.

LonelyDadNeedsHelp · 14/03/2019 11:35

First of all, Grade 5 by mid-primary is really quite impressive, so you're DC must have been doing lots right over the years, including plenty of practice.

I agree with many of the previous comments, but I would have a serious word with the teacher. Why has the teaching method changed regarding scales and accompaniment?

Should be practising with accompaniment at least many weeks before the exam, all the way through, and should be doing scales in lesson, they are a good warm-up apart from anything else. Saying scales should be learnt independently is a cop-out, teacher should have been listening to scales to assess if they are ready!

Aural skills require regular practice.

If your DC really wants to do the exam, you could try to get a couple of intensive longer lessons in. He might still do well this way, but it's far from ideal and I'd look for a new teacher regardless. But there's nothing worse than a performance/exam if you don't feel prepared.

Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 11:41

Thank you! I was thinking about looking for a new teacher after grade 4, but decided to give it another try. I always stay for the lesson and listen to what is said to DC. DC is upset and calling themselves stupid, I don’t want to tell them it’s teachers fault because I am not sure if it’s really is and I also want DC to take responsibility for their actions. But they really do practice a lot at home, though I am not sure if the scales/pieces are really played right and in tune because I am not musical and can’t really help them.

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LonelyDadNeedsHelp · 14/03/2019 11:42

Further thoughts, Grade 5 by mid-primary, so no need to rush at all. I really would be inclined to withdraw and do it in a few months with a new teacher.

Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 11:42

I was thinking about doing it anyway and then reseat next term? Is it a bad idea?

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Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 11:47

For the last few grades the marks were lost on aural and pieces. Sight reading was almost full marks and scales lost only a few points. Aural - DC always loses marks on describing styles and clapping/counting and pieces are always played too hesitant and with lack of dynamics.

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Original poster
Grumpyrobots · 14/03/2019 11:50

*resit

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NeleusTheStatue · 14/03/2019 11:51

I am so sorry for the lack of support from the teacher. I agree it's not fair for a child to take an exam without covering everything. And I do think it's the teacher's responsibility to make sure all is covered.

However, it's not so unusual to hear this kind of situation, sadly. Many teachers seem to focus on pieces only. They may show you what to expect in aural etc very briefly, if you are lucky. I am not sure why. Maybe there is no enough time? Some are simply no so exam oriented...

If you are happy with the teacher in general, but you like to make sure to cover all for an exam, you may consider arranging another teacher for other areas? Obviously too late for this term, but from next time? I would feel uncomfortable with the teacher's attitude though, blaming the child and the parent for the lack of knowledge. She could instruct you what to cover outside of her lessons in advance at least.

NeleusTheStatue · 14/03/2019 11:59

Someone I know was very active in lesson and would often address to the teacher what she would like her to cover at the start of a lesson. For instance if she felt scales had to be checked, she would tell the teacher that, even which scales, and the teacher made sure to go through whatever requested during the lesson.

I am not sure if this is a right attitude. I would hesitate to be so involved but because I don't play instruments myself so there is no way I can 'instruct' the teacher what to do... It probably depends on the relationship with the teacher, teacher's personality and teaching style... I just can imagine DS's teachers would be livid if I did that...

pearldeodorant · 14/03/2019 12:00

How ridiculous, of course it's the teachers fault. Your DS sounds like he's worked hard over the last few weeks and he's only young; the teacher is 100% in the wrong here and should've set up at least a way of him practising at least a few each week

By grade 6 (if you're on ABRSM) he will need all harmonics AND melodics and the number of scales is much greater so at least you're aware of this now

Definitely let him take it next week; he'll most likely be fine. He can learn a few in the run up to the exam this week and hope for the best.

I have a post grade 8 diploma in piano and was supported all the way to grade 8 by my teacher in my scales so would be disappointed like you are in this scenario

GingerbreadTeen · 14/03/2019 12:05

Op, I think with your DC being upset and calling themselves stupid, it honestly sounds like it would be best for their self esteem etc to cancel and rearrange for when they're more confident. My DC studies violin and has had teacher help throughout with all her exam scales as well as preparation for the aural tests. I wonder if the teacher realises she has messed up on this and trying to deflect on you.

GaraMedouar · 14/03/2019 12:07

Teachers fault. Gr5 mid primary is very advanced anyway, they are doing very well - withdraw from exam and book for Summer or Winter. Plenty of time. but they do need to be on top of scales and playing with accompaniment. All my children have always done scales and pieces with teacher, plus prompted to play with piano accompaniment. I've started doing my Dd 's pieces with her now, with me playing piano, and she won't do exam until at least Summer. Also - have you done aural? Good to be on top of that too.