January to March 2019 music thread (Title edited by MNHQ)

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the new music thread for January - I hope no one minds me starting it.

I am mum to a son (7) who is learning the piano and trumpet and a daughter (5) who is learning the piano and violin. I am having piano lessons and played the trumpet as a child.

Some of the people on these threads (and their children) are fantastic musicians. Some are more like me. All are welcome.

Thank you to Wafflenose for all the time she has spent managing these threads.

Catkind, when I said in my original post that he'd had a bad year last year, one of the things that happened was that he had a teacher for around 3 months who basically ripped him apart and I'm not sure he's recovered from that. His current teacher who he's had for around 6 months is amazing and is working very hard on building his confidence back up. I'd like to think that the directors of the orchestras that he's in wouldn't give him the lead position if they didn't feel he was good enough? He's also had some snotty comments from a parent who's child plays violin and is about to do G7 but didn't get offered the lead in either of the 2 orchestras ds is in. They left one and has now moved up to the top orchestra (County) in the other. All this has added to his feelings of not being good enough.

If I get involved in practice,he just clams up and refuses to do it. It's so hard. It's almost like he is demand avoidant.i keep trying to say to him that he will not progress unless he sticks to fingerings/bowings. 😩.

That’s tricky disorganised . I think building up his confidence is the way to go plus if he does what he’s supposed to be doing with the bowing etc point out how great it sounds
My only concern would be if he really wants to do this in the future working on him being less rigid in how he likes to do things ( difficult I know and a long term goal I think)
Ds s old teacher always said - and he often pulled apart technique- that he didn’t want to send him to music college and have someone pull his playing apart - so it does happen ( in fact I happens a lot) even when they get older and somehow your ds needs to get to a point where he’ll feel that that’s ok- this isn’t going to happen overnight though and it sounds like his current teacher will be more likely to get him there than one who will just destroy his confidence

Busyspinning, Love your username by the way!! We are doing exactly that with ds- telling him how great it sounds when he does do it correctly though I'm not musical enough to know when he does if you get me. It all sounds the same to me 😟. Interestingly though,when I went up to kiss him goodnight the other night and he'd done some awesome practice, I said well done to him and that it sounded great and he replied "no it didn't,it was awful." I tried to find out why he thought that but he didn't want to talk anymore 😢.

On a really positive note though, the director/conductor of the local Youth Orchestra he's in gave him a solo on Friday night. He was so chuffed. It's from Jesus Christ Superstar. It's only a few bars long but looks bloody hard to me. I'm so pleased that they gave it to him as surely they must think he's good enough? Otherwise they would have got the whole section to play it? However,I'm slightly terrified that he won't follow fingerings/bowings and it won't sound good 😬. He's determined to do it without his teacher's guidance 😩🔫. Where do you go from here??

Dd1s teacher has talked to her about things getting pulled apart at a later stage even for very good players. That made some impression.

Is your ds at all competetive disorganised ? He sounds like he has really solid well thought out goals but does he also want to be 'best' or care about where others are? It sounds like there are some pretty overinvested parents around if they are making comments about other kids playing. I can see that that would add a lot of self doubt.

Disorganised - being consistent with Bowing and fingering is crucial for the learning process. If DS is constantly chopping and changing, he will be much more likely to develop mental blocks and/or fall apart in performance. So it is really important. However, the exact bowing and fingering is less important than being consistent. If he wants to play his own bowing/fingering, that is probably ok, but he needs to stick to it. I would suggest discussing this with the teacher, with the idea that they will together agree and commit to bowing/fingering he is happy with.

Then he needs to practice very very slowly always with the agreed bowing/fingering for a week or two. Once that learning process is complete, he will feel much more comfortable and consistent.

On less technical matters... very sorry to hear he is still struggling with confidence. He has had a rough year. The top county orchestra might be mainly teenagers, and so maybe he would be better to hold back a year or two, and move up with his friends from his current orchestra? Even if he is of the appropriate standard for the top orchestra. The best thing for now might to be to focus on enjoyment and social opportunities? Sympathies. It is tough.

Taggie Wrt the top County Orchestra there are quite a few kids that are younger teenagers. Ds will be 13 in June. I do get what you're saying though. I've had a couple of emails from other orchestras asking for ds to audition for them including the Britten Sinfonia Academy but although he's at standard and it's an amazing opportunity his teacher and I do feel that he needs to spend this year building confidence and improving technique. I'd love for him to audition but I have to think of him.

Disorganisedmummy - my DS joined Britten Sinfonia Academy for recent course including rehearsals with Sir Mark Elder last weekend which was a great experience (us lucky parents got to watch him in action rehearsing as well). Hard to know but there seemed to be quite a few 13/14 year olds although average age was probably more like 16/17. Also quite a friendly supportive group so he would be ok.

Thanks Hertsessex,that's really good to hear. My worry is that the first stage auditions are Walt March and I'm not sure he could get his pieces upto audition standard by then?😬.

How many of the workshops has your ds done?

Disorganised ds knows lots of those in britten sinfonia this year . They all love it , though most are older . It’s 8 workshops a year as they are spread out geographically . I can’t work out if they just rehearse for a day or if they stay over ? Or if we’re expected to collect them. I’ll ask, or get ds to.
Ds isn’t auditioning this year as March is too busy and he just couldn’t get his head round that . He’ll says he’ll audition for year 11
It’s very good though

Busy - it is not residential, well at least not most of the time. The recent Christmas course was 4-5 days rehearsal over 3 weeks in 3 different locations - central Cambridge, just outside and then Saffron Walden. I think sometimes also in Norwich so yes quite spread out. The joys of wide-open East Anglia.

So do you have to stay around all day to take them home ?

I just need to know what I’m letting myself in for

Busy not sure what you mean. They are supervised all day so you don't have to hang around although but yes they need to be picked up at the end of the day (so yes unless you live fairly close either have a lot of driving or have a day to kill say in Cambridge)

Hanging around for a day is fine , but the literature made it sound like the courses lasted for a whole weekend so if that’s the case we would have to factor in overnight stays too
No I never hang around , don’t mind dropping him off for a day - everything is a long drive for us !!

I have a question, is it possible that some children struggle because their music theory is not at the same level of their practical ability?

Theory lower than practical ability

From the point of view of exams lucky do you mean? Just don't take exams, they're not important. (Or do different exams that don't require it.) Or from the point of view of learning to play new music? I guess it might slow things down slightly as they'd be less independent of the teacher but mostly people play the same pieces long enough it's not a major issue.

luckyfab i think it depends what you mean with theory level. If they have enough 'theory' to understand the music (note value, key signatures, etc.) Then i dont think there is really a problem.

I’m not sure the theory has made that much difference to DDs practical learning. It definitely does help with the aural tests in the later grades though and also with her GCSE music work

I don't think it'll cause significant struggles - obviously it depends on where you are musically, but the theory side tend to be behind for many children anyway.

But I do think good theoretical understanding can contribute to more rapid and deeper progress. For instance, memorising pieces, recognising patterns and appropriate phrasing, etc, can be a lot easier if you have theoretical approaches.

I think learning theory is like learning language. It can be done without proper study - you can learn some from just playing many pieces anyway. But it cannot be mastered properly without deliberate study with good effort. And the solid understanding in theory is a great asset.

Sorry for not being very clear, what I meant is if they can have difficulties in learning new pieces and sight reading.

Having good understanding in theory will make learning new pieces and sight reading easier in my opinion. But it really depends on where she is musically. Many can get away without studying theory properly.

Sorry for not being very clear, what I meant is if they can have difficulties in learning new pieces and sight reading.

I think if a child has specific difficulties beyond "need more practice and it will catch up" there are ways to work around. For example with Suzuki method they depend much more on learning music by ear and can get away with little sight reading skill. I did a huge amount by ear when I first took up viola until my reading caught up again (mostly; I still do more by ear than on violin I think). Listening to the music before learning it also largely gets around any limitations in remembering articulation, key signatures, tempo markings etc too.

DS is not a good sight reader and it has slowed him down. But we don't think there's any particular reason beyond laziness so the answer at the moment is DON'T play music to him first and practice lots of sight reading. It does mean at the moment DD who is a good reader is catching up on him fast, she just learns new music much quicker.

Year, agree, good sight-readers learn new music a lot quicker.

Hi. My boy is 15 and is a horn player. He did NCO last year which he loved.
We went to the Chethams open day last weekend and he was blown away. He'd like to audition for 6th form. Does anyone have any experience of Chet's? Mostly how pressurised is it? Is boarding easy to settle in to? It's a long way off as there are 3 auditions before we'd even potentially have to consider an offer but I'd like to be prepared if it were to happen.