January to March 2019 music thread (Title edited by MNHQ)

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the new music thread for January - I hope no one minds me starting it.

I am mum to a son (7) who is learning the piano and trumpet and a daughter (5) who is learning the piano and violin. I am having piano lessons and played the trumpet as a child.

Some of the people on these threads (and their children) are fantastic musicians. Some are more like me. All are welcome.

Thank you to Wafflenose for all the time she has spent managing these threads.

What advice do his music teachers have? Presumably they've got a few children into music college recently? You could phone music colleges' admissions teams and ask them if having the pieces of paper helps or if it is simply on the audition. I'm sure they would be more than happy to advise you - this question must come up all the time. At least then you'd know?!

My Dd wants to go into music. She has an excellent ear, composes, arranges and plays and sings. So for her the ATCL was a natural next step. She has all the diploma planned out, and feels they’ll be the right extensions as she decides which way she is going in music.

We aren’t living in the UK currently, so there’s no popping into the conservatoire or contacting Chethams. So for her she has to make a decision without all the guidance. I’m a big believer in hard work AND the paperwork and so many people are chasing places. It’s hard.

We also know people who are doing 3-4 hours practise a day, every day. My daughter isn’t one of those. She loves art and composing and playing other instruments too. And seeing friends. And cooking. I wonder whether the conservatoires want somone with personality and other instruments or who just single-mindedly pursue excellence...

so there’s no popping into the conservatoire or contacting Chethams. So for her she has to make a decision without all the guidance
You don't need to physically visit them for guidance. Email works just as well!

boyskeep I know. But she doesn’t really know where and what conservatories are. Or what is involved. When I grew up in the UK, we would pop into the RNCM to flute open days and go to concerts etc. whereas she has no frame of reference. And she is a bit of a worrier.

I also am highly aware of the industry. I think she is more likely to go into producing or composing tbh. We are just in the process of setting up the spare bedroom as a home recording studio. That would have been megabucks when I grew up!

We also know people who are doing 3-4 hours practise a day, every day. My daughter isn’t one of those. She loves art and composing and playing other instruments too. And seeing friends. And cooking. I wonder whether the conservatoires want somone with personality and other instruments or who just single-mindedly pursue excellence...

Well I think they want excellence in the principal area of study above all else although I guess that could encompass different things (technique, performance personality, etc). However, depends a bit on the course/principal area of study. If trying to get into RCM to study violin against a huge number of amazing violinists then playing saxophone or composition or broader personality probably doesn't help much. However, if say trying to get into Guildhall to study composition or electronic music then while still need to have an amazing composition portfolio maybe having broader experience is also useful.

Herts

I know a DC who did grade 8 piano in Y4 term 3 then ATCL in Y6 term 3. People thought next would be diploma. But she joined music school in Y7 (this academic year) then now no plan of any further exams. So..., you know what I'm saying...?

Some find exams a great motivator, some find the contents interesting or useful, some need proof of their ability on paper, etc. So Exams are great. But it doesn't sit well for everyone and not everyone needs it. And, as your DS says, certainly you don't need it for music college entry. Not at all.

Romany, Charlie Parker infamously practised more than 10 hours a day before the fatal car accident that triggered his life long addiction so I don't think his stamina was purely due to the Coke!

neleus

I think there are so many stories about the great Jazz greats, we have quite a few collected over the years.
They were mostly drug addicts though, and the 10 hours practice that is reported rarely happened.
They slept most of the day, had a blow at night and then played during the night as well. Coltrane and Art Pepper are also good reads if you can find any.

Ito practice, mine does quite a lot that would equate to about 3/4 hours a day, but it's just the way the school works. It's much easier if you can start at 7.30 and don't have to worry about travel time to school or neighbours. Then of course there are opportunities during the evening too. Weekends can be more or less than the 4 hours depending on what they have on.
Conservatoires look for the same as the music schools.
Primarily it's somebody they can work with, shows promise, is committed and dedicated. Here again they aren't looking for a finished product. They look at some of what you have done musically, if you've played with many ensembles, taken part in competitions, your musical profile throughout school.
I'm told they can tell straight away whether you'll fit in, within the first few minutes.
We have friends who teach and take auditions, and it's generally what they say.

Also, how you cope with mistakes, they observe your general personality, they don't want perfectionists, they want people who can lead well (if a leading instrument).

If my memory is correct the car accident happened when he was 15 or 16 so the more than 10 hours practice story was a way before he became famous. I think his sleeping daytime and playing at night (and lots of drugs) lifestyle started when he moved to N.Y and worsened as he became successful... But anyway, that's all I know and I might have read some made-up stories about the legend!

Boyskeepswinging, thanks for your kind post about how I can help DS see other career options. He used to spend 1/3 time of a year in a country totally different from England. He still goes back at least once a year and generally travels well since he was three months old (!). That seems to have helped him gain very flexible and wider views towards the world we live. I will do the same for his career/study options, letting him see what's out there, and hopefully it will help him discover what he really wants in life when he is a young man.

Scarily time passes by so quickly. He is still very young but I fear seeing him as a young man is not so far away...

Nelius that makes more sense actually. You are more than likely right, i only know stories after they become famous. I'll add that to my knowledge.

You are also right about time passing quickly, I can't believe my baby is all grown up at 15. It seems yesterday she was starting primary school, it is scary.

I think children does diploma etc are ones who dont go to music schools so they could still have some kind of well structured music learning. We havent had music exams for a long time so for us the grades exams are ticked boxes for her to have various areas of her music checked(rather than just playing pieces or focusing on a particular technique).

Outside music school world getting a diploma can also help open doors or make people think of you when opportunities come up. Recital slots, concertos, paid gigs, opportunities to play with pros. In a smaller local music scene word does get around and it's just another nudge for people to remember you rather than someone else. And the diploma can be a different musical experience itself. But it is going to be really variable from person to person whether they are already performing enough that people know what they can do. I played violin so easy to get lost in the crowd!

It's a good excuse to give a recital too - if you're not in a system where it's the norm, "can I do a lunchtime recital to help prepare for my diploma" is easier to say than "can I do a lunchtime recital because I'm so fabulous dahling"

Romany, I like reading stories before becoming famous.

Enjoyed reading through this discussion. DS did G8 before joining music school but his & his teachers focus since joining is 100% on improving tone & technique. Everything seems so relaxed, which I find quite unnerving. If he were at home, we'd no doubt be guiding him towards a diploma etc.

That's also what I wanted to say. Exams can hinder proper development required for serious musicians. After all there are so many to learn before reaching to the conservatoire entry. But as thirdfiddle pointed, they can be a great tool for those who are motivated, need challenges and pretty serious but not as serious as considering a music career.

I don't mean that those who did diploma wouldn't be a pro nor wouldn't enter conservatoire. There are many different musicians, approaches and goals.

I think it's a personality thing ito exams, they are really useful but not the be all.
There are plenty of brilliant musicians who have never taken an exam and others that have passed many.
Grade 8 is the requirement for conservatoire and most colleges. Some expect a grade 5 Piano.
The lack of GCSE or A level isn't a barrier though. In fact you may be at a disadvantage if you have taken them and not got great grades.

Mumsnetters- I’m on the search for a Benoît Rolland Spiccato carbon fibre violin bow. Any help appreciated- searched high and low.....maker had stopped making them but they are out there!

why that one Zac, I'm nosy.

Dd tried the violin luthiers when she picked up her full size violin and fell in love with it!!! Unfortunately luthier wasn’t selling it as it was her own bow.
So I’m now on a mission! 🤣

Romany, the grade requirement for conservatoire means 'standard' rather than 'actual exam certificate' right? So no need to take them.

It seems it's a natural step to move on to the next exam for @Shakyisles's DD. Go ahead. Good for her. But I just thought, you may want to search for another option to nurture her love of music in the meantime. Sometimes the rigid system can be a killer for real creative soul. She sounds very talented and creative. Many able DCs can pass exams but creativity is something rather special. For instance, Alma Deutsche's dad deliberately avoided introducing her to the traditional English method of exams and mechanical learning. Instead he researched and found her a teacher who could teach her music in a very unique way (the method used in 18th century Italy). She studies with him via skype. So you don't need to live physically close to excellent teachers (if living outside the UK is your concern).

Zak, sorry never heard of it. Have you contacted deals/luthiers everywhere? You may want to send out a bulk email? You can possibly contact dealers outside the UK too. Bows can be posted.

Seems my attempt of tagging is failed (don't know how to do it)!

I’ve contacted the maker himself- and they are no longer in production- will continue to check luthiers/shops and auctions. Let me know if you come across one though 🤣