Drums - failed grade 2 and general advice please!

[blackeyes72]

Hi there,
we are a house of musicians, all my older children play instruments to different levels of ability; so we are not exactly novices in the world of music and I certainly have dealt with a large number of music teachers in the years. I know the children need to practice to succeed/enjoy the instrument and I also have had all sorts of teachers.

Our youngest DD (just turned 9) has been learning the drums for 2 years. She has a great sense of rhythm as she has been doing tap for a couple of years and has passed her exams with very high grades. She also has just started singing lessons 2 months ago and the teacher has already put her in for her grade 1 exam in December.

However we have had a very unsuccessful time with her drums but I need to understand if it is the teacher or not....hard really. She has failed her grade 2 in the summer. I was very annoyed about this because she had been practising for well over a year and failed on things like "technical exercise" which was just a couple lines. Her pieces were ok-ish. The annoying thing is that the teacher only told me she wasn't ready 2 weeks before the exam but I decided to let her go for it...

Also he has now decided to put her on "technical exercises". So for the past 2 months, all she has been doing is lines and lines of exercises. No pieces.

I have asked several times if he could give her a piece to learn alongside the technical stuff as she likes to have fun playing something and he has just repeatedly told me to just stick in any pop song and let her play. I told him this doesn't really cut it because she wants to work through a book and have a sense she is learning pieces but yesterday when I asked again for pieces he went bright red (he was fuming) and told me that if she really wants to learn pieces she can do it herself but he refuses to do it as she has to rebuild her technique and his job is to do that in the lessons.

I find this approach very odd as it has never happened before with any of the other teachers. I do feel that he has some responsibility in her failing the g2 but never said as such to him. For context, none of the children have ever failed a music exam so it is sad for DD...

However DD is starting to lose interest doing the same exercises for months on end.

She has the option to move teachers of course, but I wanted a second opinion here...

Ideas and opinions would be very welcome!!!!

Playing without music as a drummer is a skill in itself- so I wouldn’t completely dismiss that idea. Get her to listen to tracks she likes and see if she can replicate, add bits to it etc...
What drum exam was it? RockSchool/Trinity/Trinity Rock and Pop?
Does she like playing drums?
Exams aren’t everything.....but if she likes them then maybe change teacher- although the rudiments are important.....

It was Rock School.
She loves the drums but she likes the comfort of a piece on paper to play along to. I don't think she is advanced enough yet to have the confidence to play to any track? I think this is something I would expect someone who is fairly confident to do - or is this something a grade 1-grade 2 level child could easily do?
I thought pieces were there to support someone getting there - or are they there just for exam purposes?

My dd is also 9, but she started at 5- she’s stopped doing RockSchool drums now- but the last grade she did was grade 5.
I think it’s well within her grasp to play along, if she’s likes the security of sheet music, maybe print out some songs she knows- real songs- not RockSchool.
My dd will play along to all sorts, like The Who, The Beatles etc.....obviously she can’t play like Keith Moon (The Who) but she likes to play what she can figure out, and makes up her own bits for the rest.
Did she do gr1 drums? How did that go?
I agree that just doing technical exercises for that long is difficult- not very stimulating. Maybe talk to the teacher again and suggest 1/2 and 1/2, some tech exercise/and rest pieces.
Or have a look at grade 3 R/S with her- without teacher- to keep her interested?

Sounds like great advice thank you!!!

Does your DD get on with her drum teacher? Do you? If not, it's probably a good time to find a new teacher. The last thing you want is for her to lose her love of drums because of her teacher. Have you met other children taught by the same teacher? How did they get on in their grades?

I don't understand why she wasn't taught the rudimentals before she did her grade exam, rather than trying to back track now? My DS spent a year purely on snare drum rudimentals before moving on. Sounds dull but his technique is 100% rock solid and he has the confidence to sight read anything now.

Did the teacher suggest putting her in for grade 2 or you? If he did then two weeks before then I would question him as a teacher.

To be honest doing the technical exercises thing is not unusual although not ideal to keep a 9 year old interest. My son was about grade 6 Trinity (not the rock/pop one) at 10 and doing great but his pass grade wasn't great. He then changed teachers and new teacher didn't let him play a piece for months and months. Said he needed to improve technique (although he played at home on his own to pieces.) He passed his grade 7 with only dropping a few marks so massive improvement from the exercises. He then changed teacher again at 13 and once more months and months of exercises/technique things and almost no proper pieces. He kind of stalled for a while but then zoomed ahead.

So good to do the exercises but ideally do something else with the teacher or alone. Just pick some tracks she likes and let her have fun doing whatever she wants drumming to them.

Getting on with the teacher is definitely not the issue; we have literally so many teachers in the years and I tend to get on with everyone.

The biggest issues for me are the fact she failed her g2 after preparing for it for 16 months when she is a very bright girl who listens and has a natural sense of rhythm - something is amiss with the teaching I think.

Unfortunately he was recommended by someone but it was just a passing acquaintance who we don't see anymore. I don't know any other children. I am tempted to switch to the school drum teacher.

I understand the need to build on technique, which is the same in all instruments...however I really don't think that just doing technical exercises is going to cut if for her as a method of teaching. Plus I suppose I have lost trust in the teacher after letting her fail....

Yeh, I'd move to another teacher with a strong track record. I didn't much like your earlier comment about the teacher's attitude to you asking about doing some pieces. That would have been a major red flag for me as a good teacher would recognise when their pupil is becoming bored and mix it up. Unfortunately, as in all professions, there are better and worse teachers out there and it's worth putting in a bit of research to find the perfect teacher for the stage your DD is at.

My feeling is yes might be better to change teachers and school teacher might be a good idea as there tends to be quality control. It may be that is not a bad teacher but just doesn't fit with how your DD wants to learn although I still wonder how she got entered for the exam and then told not to do it 2 weeks before. We have been through many teachers and maybe 30 exams and none of them ever suggested entering until they were convinced DC would be ready.

However, just want to question are your comment about her having a natural sense of rhythm. Are you sure and what do you base that on? I am not saying you are wrong but broader musical success doesn't necessarily equate to natural sense of rhythm. I don't know about tap but as you suggest maybe that is a good indicator. I do know of some quite good piano players who had passed grade 6-8 who tried percussion (orchestral drums, xylophone, etc) and really struggled with rhythm. Also I remember drum teacher my son had in primary school who said there were some students he had taught for years who were never going to pass grades as they had poor sense of rhythm and he refused to put them in for exams but they refused to stop.

I thought tap was like drumming with feet?

But there us always that possibility...

Maybe simply a different approach will suit her more.. I guess if we try a different teacher and the issues remain, we will know it's definitely her!

I'm prepared to get shot down here but I think there is a huge difference between tapping and drumming. In tapping you are following the beat, in drumming you are creating the beat. Now, I can follow a beat as well as anyone - my ensemble technique is good in that respect. It is a world apart from being the person driving the band/group/orchestra - that scares me senseless and I find it a challenge if I'm on my own, as you are as a kit drummer (if I'm playing bass drum and someone is playing snare next to me I can do that as I follow them but I'm not so good on my own). I guess it's a skill I could learn but as a string player I've never had to - I just get roped in to help on perc occasionally and it scares me to death.

So I believe that tapping and drumming require quite different skill sets and, frankly, balls of steel for a drummer. I am in awe of what my son does!

Have you ever seen a professional tapper?

My eldest dd is a semi- professional tapper and the rhythms she creates are incredible. Very little following there - watch some videos, you will be surprised.. I was!

I did say I was prepared to be shot down but. yes, I have seen professional tap dancers. And yes, it can be most impressive. But I still think driving a band/ensemble is a very different skill to tapping. As I said, I have an excellent sense of rhythm and can improvise with the best of them but actually being the impetus of the ensemble? Very different in my experience.
Anyway, I hope your search for a more appropriate teacher is progressing. Hopefully that will make all the difference.
Best wishes!

I would be inclined to agree with Boys re: rhythm and tap....I don’t think it’s the same.
Anyway- have you made a decision?

We decided to let her have a trial with the school teacher, to see how she gets on.

I take your point about tapping but I still think mine us valid in thar she has enough sense of rhythm to be able to play and if not I woukd have hoped the teacher woukd have said something!!

I feel that if she decides to go with the school teacher and there is no progress, then we'll know! I do feel that some teachers aren't maybe great at engaging with younger pupils or understanding they need to be kept enthused in a different way!

Thanks for all the advice, I do appreciate it!

Ps sorry about the typos!!!!

Hi druidsong, I think you have some good points. I struggle because I am a pianist and all my children have done instruments I could relate to, such as violin, flute, piano, even the guitar, but with drums I really don't get what sounds good/not good or what they are supposed to be doing.

My gut feeling is that DD2 is ok at the drums, certainly has a sense of rhythm and is enthusiastic, and I am gobsmacked that the teacher could not really teach a line of technical exercises in so many months. BUT it might be she is not teachable and cannot play - who knows, everything if possible....

DS2 had a guitar teacher who after 2 years told us we had to start from scratch with him as he couldn't play guitar for toffee. I was quite naïve back then and told DS2 we would have a break for a while as basically we were told by the teacher he was hopeless. 6 months he told me he wanted to try with the school teacher...DH and I were very reluctant but were persuaded in the end...within 6 months he did grade 1, within a year grade 2 and a year later g3....also won a regional festival.

I do strongly believe that some teachers don't have the patience/technique with younger children, but again I am happy to accept DD can't play and will make her give up.

She does have a drum kit at home and sounds good to me but then again I am not an expert!!!

I'd try another teacher rather than give up completely. This time try someone who has an excellent track record of teaching children at your DD's age and stage. It worked for your DS2 so why not DD2?
Sounds to me like the teacher didn't understand how to prepare her properly for her grade exam so find someone who you know has achieved good results in the past. You are absolutely correct that not all teachers are good with little ones. My DS's first teacher wasn't great but we struck gold with his second (and current) teacher. I think you finding the right teacher will be key. If the teacher then advises you she'd be better trying another instrument at least you'll know for sure (As an aside my DS's perc teacher knew he was a natural drummer from the way DS hit a drum age 6 - his teacher told me that to the trained eye it is obvious.)
If drums turn out to not be her thing there are lots of rhythmic instruments she might consider like Double Bass (same fingering as Bass Guitar, too, so super-useful), Bassoon (an endangered species so she'd be most popular anywhere she went) or a bass brass instrument? But as I say, hopefully it's just been poor teaching. We need more female drummers!

Perhape change teachers but put hr in for a resit next term as well as she might pass with a different examiner and with another term of practice (my son passed grade 8 drums and I don't remember it being particularly hard so perhaps she either has a bad teacher or had a difficult examiner).

Personally I really wouldn't put her in for another exam until you're confident she's been taught the correct syllabus. Otherwise you're setting her up to fail again and that would knock her confidence something rotten. Despite what some people think, grade exams are not some sort of holy grail. My DS has never taken a perc grade and plays at both county and national level. Getting her rudimental techniques rock solid is way more important at her stage.

My son is a drummer, he's just done g4 rock school.
I thi k the technical exercises are quite different to playing the pieces. You are much more exposed, you have to keep your own beat. To an extent you can hide with the music, or if you get a bit lost you can look for a cue to get you back in. So I thi k you can get away with being ok at one thing but not the other.
Have g said that I thi k she sing too long on the technical exercises by themselves and not alongside anything else would be soul destroyingly boring and I would not think that would be a good way to progress.
My son also drums in a pipe band and a lot of their practise time is spent on similar technical exercises without music. But they play together in a group with people dropping out and joining in, switching from one rhythm to another, so it's still engaging and interesting.
I would be happy with an increased focus on the technical exercises but if that is all they are doing I would be looking for a new teacher I think. Kids need to enjoy what they are doing or they won't stick at it.

(I'm also a parent with no idea about drums so I agree, it is hard to know what to do for the best)

Good luck with the new teacher and hope it works out. It probably will but you never know. My DS’s first teacher used to teach 30 primary school kids for years with great success for many but some couldn’t even get to the stage of taking grade 1.

I echo comments above on keeping time being tricky and not just rhythm. One of reasons why lots of people who have come through rock and pop teaching struggle to play a decent unaccompanied solo.

My son who is pretty advanced for his age tried a computerised test at a percussion event. He played simple straight 8s to a track and then the music cut-off for a few bars but he had to keep drumming. Then the music came back and the computer measured how far drummer had a strayed. Answer in his case was a lot more than he had expected!

PS this is turning into a bit of a drummers’ parent hangout thread. Quite a few of us around

Yeah! Herts