October Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Welcome to the thread for October, which is open to ANYONE who wants to discuss music lessons, practice, exams, auditions, instrument hire/ purchase or whatever related issues you'd like to. Newbies are especially welcome, and we have some each month, often with beginners. All of our kids were beginners once.

I have two DDs. Goo is 12 and plays the flute and piano. She can also play recorders and the piccolo, but doesn't. We've just moved her to another piano teacher because the first one retired, so it's nice to hear her practising again. She has been learning for about 2.5 years and hasn't done any exams... nor is she intending to. On the flute we have extended range scales, the Chaminade Concertino and Bizet's Carmen Fantasy at the moment. She plays in 7 school ensembles and does NCO and South West Music School, although she's likely to be leaving both at various points during this academic year.

Rara is 10 and plays the cello and clarinet regularly, and recorder sometimes. She's vaguely working towards Grade 5 on both, but it might end up being 4 on the cello because of various aspects she's behind in... we'll see. I am still teaching her the clarinet and am currently super fed up because however kind, patient and helpful I am, she behaves in such a horrible way. We can't afford lessons. Ho hum. Rara also does NCO and SWMS. Under 11s will be beyond her, but she'll carry on with SWMS for now.

I am a teacher of woodwind!

Also, I know exam fees are expensive but I guess I rationalise it in my mind with the fact that as I teach both of them piano, theory and DD the recorder, then the money we would spend on lessons is used for fees instead. There is a limit to how far I can take them however. Post Grade 5 we will need to have a rethink.

Melting it’s amazing that you are teaching them yourself !! I’m just not keen on exams because I hated them myself !!

For ds it’s not about hating exams but I just didn’t want him to rush . Up to this point because he could just do it - with a bit of work- he had zipped through to grade 7 with less than 2 years of private lessons and I really felt he just needed to enjoy playing and get a lot of experience behind him - luckily his teachers agreed !! He’s kind of settled into a whole new level of playing now so he will do his grade 8 and diploma before he leaves school - there’s just no rush I guess
Oh and he did do the grade 5 jazz earlier this year ( just in case he mucks up his theory !!) but again this was another just sit the exam because you know you can scenario rather than working towards it for ages - this suits him well ( not always good for my stress levels though )

Trumpetboysmum

I know where you are coming from and we are the same.
Luckily dd has never had teachers who chased exams, she did them when ready or as others say to gain entry to an ensemble.

I don't think it's healthy to start the next exam pieces as soon as you exit the exam room, like some do. I've been in our local music shop and heard people doing this. The sad thing is it isn't always directed by the parent. Some say their teachers told them to get the next book.

I think it's a bad teacher who does this, almost like they are having to prove their worth.

I do think exams are great if used for the right reasons and almost essential for the younger ones starting out. It gives an indication of the level the child is working within. It can help with the choice of music if the parent doesn't know themselves.
For some it's a way into gaining a bursary or scholarship to a particular school.
For those requiring UCAS points rather than grades it can help with college entrance to related subjects.
I'm sure there are lots o other benefits too,. Exams are a great addition to your other musical abilities.

My DD seems to really enjoy the exams. Goes in bouncy and comes out bouncier. That might change as she gets older, I suppose!

brasstacks

Your dd sounds very dedicated, she may not change at all and this is great.
I think most kids enjoy doing exams, but there's a fine line to them being an additional activity than the sole purpose of playing.
Unfortunately, there are those that fall into the latter, a lot of these will give up after grade 8 as they have reached the only goal they/their parents had.
This to me is sad, as music making is something wonderful that can add huge benefits to your life, even if you don't become a professional.

I couldn't agree more, Romany.

I've recently lost a pupil over the exam debate.
Some here might remember me mentioning her last year - mum was insisting on her doing grade 5 before I felt she was ready and then refused to increase the lesson length to 45 minutes, even though I was often teaching for that long while being paid for 30 minutes, simply to make sure the pupil was prepared enough.

Of course, as soon as grade 5 has been taken, the parent started nagging about doing grade 6. Once again, I sat her and the pupil down and explained that after grade 5 was usually a good time to pause and consolidate, and that having to prep for grade 5 theory usually created a natural break (this particular pupil had already taken theory because she was also a pianist, so I didnt have that 'excuse' to put exams on hold, in her case). The pupil had had a fixed brace fitted that was causing issues with playing too, and because she'd only ever gone from exam to exam, she couldn't sight read to save her life (she didn't do any other playing - no ensembles, no performing).
We started working on further grade 5 repertoire, with the odd grade 6 level piece thrown in, grade 6 scales, lots of sightreading, lots of work on sorting out her embouchoure and sound etc, but after a couple of months, the parent once again demanded that I start teaching towards the exam, because that's what they liked to do. They simply would not listen when I explained (again!) that every single lesson was a step forward towards grade 6, and that going through three grade 6 pieces, lesson after lesson, for months wasn't the most effective way of making progress, and certainly not the way I teach. The parent replied that her daughter liked to have something to work towards (she couldn't seem to grasp that working towards being a better player was working towards something!), so I suggested that maybe she'd like to enter a local competition I'm on the committee for, or prepare a piece for a performance at school. The parent said that the daughter definitely wouldn't want to do that, as she didn't enjoy performing. Nor did she want to join any ensembles...She was quite happy just taking exam after exam.

The final straw was when the parents refused to buy any books but the ABRSM selected pieces book, and refused to extend lessons to 45 minutes; there's no way I am happy to prepare a pupil for grade 6 and above in 30 minutes a week!

Floot - I remember you talking about this student/parent before and sadly seems like best you part ways. I feel sorry for the student as doubtless the parent that is driving this behaviour and probably has a similar attitude to other areas including academic work. However, not sure about your last comment on preparing for grade 6 on 30 minutes a week. All three of my DCs have done that perhaps with a few extra lessons nearer the exam although they have really taken there time to get to that point with no pressure.

Sounds like you’re well out of it floot !

herts, yes, you're right - I meant that I wasn't happy to prepare for grade 6 in the timescale the parent was dictating, in 30 minutes a week. I was happy to carry on teaching and putting her in for the exam when she was ready, without increasing the length of lessons, but her mum wanted me to enter her straightaway. She needed so much input at that point, 30 minutes would never have been adequate.

It was a relief when I stopped teaching her, to be honest. I suspect she's found a teacher who is happy to keep plugging away at exams, and she'll stop playing at all once she's reached the magic 8.

Interesting exam discussion. DS2 has not done violin exams but has been playing grade 7/8 repertoire for the last 18 months (including for both NCO auditions). He will eventually do grade 8, but we haven't decided when yet. There is still some basic work to do on technique, tone and posture. We won't bother with other grades.

Teaching him myself, I have found the ASBRM and Trinity repertoire lists and sight reading books very useful resources for gauging where he is and for getting ideas for pieces. He has played about half the pieces on the Trinity grade 8 list (which is fantastic!) with varying levels of proficiency. I am not so keen on the ABRSM list this time round, as it happens. When he does grade 8 violin, it will be a case of going back to pieces he learnt a while a go and has performed several times in concerts, masterclasses, festivals and auditions, so he is totally safe and has a strong chance of a distinction. It does feel like ticking a £100 box though....

He has however done a piano exam, and we will continue with regular piano exams, with grade 4 later in the spring or summer. I think exams are really good for second instruments, as they keep the child (and parent!) focused, and things like sight reading/scales and aural are easy if the DC is playing at a much higher level in the other instrument. So the process seems less burdensome. He will start the grade 4 repertoire and scales probably in March/April for a June/July exam.

My preferred approach for exam taking is if you want to do it, do it at a point where you can pretty much sight read the music. Then you can pick up and polish the music in a couple of months and be done. DD was only taking Initial but got the music in Jan and took exam in March, very little disruption to her learning at all as she'd have learned 3-4 pieces of that difficulty in that time anyway. We messed up with DS's grade 1 though, I think maybe teacher expected him to learn music quicker than he did so he ended up playing the pieces for nearly 9 months, far too long.

Also the thing with ABRSM exams and probably trinity (but not sure) is that you can be assessed by a brass player as a violinist- musically not a problem- but they can never comment on technique of the instrument.....so you could pass Grade 8 violin (just as an example) and have very poor technique.....and the exams are a tick box exercise for examiners, so again you could pass grade 8 and still not be great...
I’ve heard a couple of kids like this- they obviously love playing which is great, but parents/teachers have pushed them too far/too fast and they aren’t ready.....

I have just come up with a business idea, which I don't think I should post on here, but as us parents are my demographic was wondering if anyone would mind a pm to explain and gain your opinion.
I'm not looking to parents from here, that would be wrong to expect free advertising, but would value opinion.
I also don't want to take up the thread so if you don't mind a pm a Yes in your next post would be brilliant.

Yes

Yes, please!

Yes 🙂

Zak, so true about ABRSM examiners not being specialists in the candidate's instrument. As you say, the difference between various students who have all passed grade 8 can be vast - some may only have ever learnt exam pieces, and possibly learnt them by rote at that.
I agree with catkind - I like pupils to treat exams as way markers: something they take as they pass that level, and not to be explicitly worked towards. You need to be at the "working at" standard for the grade before you put the entry in, and the 3 pieces you choose should be the last part of the process.

Do you know also that examiners cannot write something like, "You could have made more of the 'forte' ", because they don't actually know if that particular candidate COULD have made more, or whether that was the limit of their ability.

Yes Romany, happy to help.

Yes, happy to be PMed

Yes please @RomanyRoots

Yes Romany

Zak I agree about the technique 100%. My boy is a percussionist and you see kids who've passed Grade 8 but their technique is shocking. To a violinist or pianist it probably looks fine but to the trained eye it is dreadful. My lad is another who's only doing Grade 8 and Diploma and that's only to help him to get into his chosen uni course.

Zak - an advantage of trinity is that you can opt for an instrument specialist examiner if you are prepared to travel.

Romany - yes please. I’m curious!