October Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Welcome to the thread for October, which is open to ANYONE who wants to discuss music lessons, practice, exams, auditions, instrument hire/ purchase or whatever related issues you'd like to. Newbies are especially welcome, and we have some each month, often with beginners. All of our kids were beginners once.

I have two DDs. Goo is 12 and plays the flute and piano. She can also play recorders and the piccolo, but doesn't. We've just moved her to another piano teacher because the first one retired, so it's nice to hear her practising again. She has been learning for about 2.5 years and hasn't done any exams... nor is she intending to. On the flute we have extended range scales, the Chaminade Concertino and Bizet's Carmen Fantasy at the moment. She plays in 7 school ensembles and does NCO and South West Music School, although she's likely to be leaving both at various points during this academic year.

Rara is 10 and plays the cello and clarinet regularly, and recorder sometimes. She's vaguely working towards Grade 5 on both, but it might end up being 4 on the cello because of various aspects she's behind in... we'll see. I am still teaching her the clarinet and am currently super fed up because however kind, patient and helpful I am, she behaves in such a horrible way. We can't afford lessons. Ho hum. Rara also does NCO and SWMS. Under 11s will be beyond her, but she'll carry on with SWMS for now.

I am a teacher of woodwind!

There are a few pro Corda experts around - my kids aren't at that stage yet at all but I adore chamber music so I would!

It does look good, though I saw elsewhere on this thread a recommendation for YNSSO, which would be more local for us. I guess that's not chamber music, though? Though by next summer she will be well into grade 6-7 level, as she is playing grade 6 pieces very well now, so perhaps NSSO Sinfonia as it looks like that does have chamber music? If they're all older than her there, though, she may prefer Pro Corda with children more her own age?

I suppose it is good that there is so much on offer, but it's a somewhat bewildering array of options!

Hi! I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the question about conservatoires in Germany. My husband is British and studied in Germany. He had to pass a language test before being admitted, which wasn't too horrid (he had been living in Germany for a few years at that point though). I studied at a music conservatoire and there were lots of overseas students, some with very little German. I remember observing a flute lesson in Chinese once... So I'd say it's totally possible to study there with a language course or two! (And yeah, no fees!!) :)

Stanilin

Posted too soon
Brasstacks I’m sure your daughter would cope with nsso but most of them are teenagers so socially it could be difficult . What ds has enjoyed most about NCO is that he’s got to hang out with loads of musically minded people his age .

Pro corda is fab from what I’ve heard and although the ages are mixed up a bit there would be lots of others her age ( ish) who are good players

Brass - dd did young Nsso at 8yo and it was fantastic; it is a wide age range but the three Orchestras and the dorm system mean it works fine. I know quite a few who prefer it to NCO (dd likes the NCO age banding) Would def do it again if we had time.

String I stand corrected
I know ds might consider it for next year , he’s already doing something else that week this year !! He diary gets booked up quickly in this house !!

Hi Brass, a few thoughts from someone with a young string player!!

Firstly, 8 is still very young to be heading to specialist school IMO - obviously each child is different but I think from a social perspective, most of the children are older going in (Y7 seems to be popular, but lots don't go until GCSE or Sixth form even). My daughter's previous teacher went to Purcell, and was adamant that if she is going to go, it's not until 13-14. There is an amazing little 10yr old at our JD that only lasted a term at YMS when she went in at 8. I don't think it's ever too late, it's about what's right for your DD. Although others on here are probably better placed to advise on that.

Secondly, a number of people have said she should go to RCM or RAM if she's going to go to any. I'd take this with a pinch of salt. The JD's are all very different but all have something wonderful to offer. They also all have their true prodigies. My daughter's JD has a renowned string department and it's quite common for students at RCM / RAM to move there. What's most important is finding the right fit for the child and family, and a stellar teacher. You can be at the most prestigious college in the world with the best teacher, but if that fit isn't right, DD won't get the most out of it.

Pro Corda is simply the most wonderful musical experience my DD has had so far - do look into it!! Definitely a game changer for us, and opened the door to JD.

There is a fabulous podcast on Podbean and other podcast apps called 'Beyond the Triangle'. It's all about raising young artists. I think you will find it helpful (I certainly do!).

Your DD is doing incredibly well - and her teacher must be good to get her to that point so young. Talk to them, trust their judgement. Look around the 'doable' JD's and regional CAT's (there are a few). Most of all, enjoy. 😍

Just to concur with brass...

green: DD here did not have aspirations to study music at HE at 10 years old (she has chosen it for GCSE but it wasn't forced on her), but enjoys the ensembles/orchestral part of school life; always has done.

If every music scholar had ambitions to become the next world class soloist and all their music hours were outside, there would be no one to contribute to the every day music making at schools. Quite often, some of these virtuoso DC come with diva like attitudes and therefore some schools do need to question what they need/why/who to offer to etc to build their pipeline throughout the 5/7 years of award. Some are getting this wrong right now, and realising that having a high flyer doesn't necessarily come with adding value for them other than showcasing at music scholar type concerts...

If it helps, one of the specialist music schools has 34 juniors 8-11year olds. Some would say specialist training for string players is needed as young as possible- I’m not entirely sure- I’m sure there are lots of different ways.

Lots of different ways is my mantra Zac . I have to regularly remind ds of this when he’s been away and comes back telling me everyone has this or is doing x, y and z - it’s also not always completely true either !!
Also paths might change as they get older , want different things . Nothing is ever set in stone - which I’m currently finding quite exhausting ( but it’s exciting too !!) I think it’s just about making sure that they are enjoying their music making when they are young . If they have the right teacher and attitude and are enjoying it I think if it’s meant to be the rest will come
‭

I'm with Folk - there are so many different paths that could lead to a music career, and even to becoming a soloist, I wouldn't discount some because of heresay.

I can think of 2 children of friends who are both in their early 20's and persuing already successful careers, one as a cello soloist and the other as a leader. The cellist went to state comp, wasn't in NCO/NYO/JD or even the county orchestras. Instead, his parents found a good teacher and put all their efforts into his cello lessons. He then went to the Menuhin school for 6th form, before going to the Guildhall and getting a first in BA in performance.
The violinist went to JD at 12, and then Purcell School for 6th form. She went into the back of the second violins in NYO at 15 and worked her way up to leader, before going to Guildhall as an undergraduate. She's still there but working in West End shows, extra work etc.

I think 8 is still quite young to predict what might happen in the future. Some children peak early, others take longer to develop, and music isn't a race.

Your daughter is doing really well. There are plenty of fantastic teachers who will nurture her, without the need to go to JD or specialist school at this point.

Brass - if dd was serious about being a string soloist I think I would try to talk to a jd professor (not with a view to going their but fit find fispassuonate advice) or similar and ask for advice on the routes and options. Personally - but I don’t really have any expertise at all in this - I think strings is a slightly different journey to others and whilst there will always be exceptions, specialist or very accommodating school (or homeschooling) is a relatively stabdard path. . The need to build experience, competitions, etc is very time consuming and needs careful mgt and reall knowledge as well as support to ensure the child is healthy in all senses. Dd is adamant she can do all this and stay in her school but I already see the gap in practice from those in specialist schools etc. It’s hard isn’t it!

Hello Brass, ds joined a specialist school in year 9 this year as a full boarder. I'm not certain we'd have been comfortable about this at any earlier stage, although we may have felt differently if he was day/weekly.

I'd echo previous comments about JD's - ds's experience at Conservatoire last year was top notch. Now at London JD. He was one of four trumpeters last year, the other 3 older and fantastic role models. DS came along in leaps & bounds. This year he's playing with others his own age. Although he's principle in 2 of his ensembles, I personally don't think that theres any harm in being at the bottom of the pecking order!

After 3 of days of inactivity, ds spent a couple of hours at the piano yesterday evening working his way through my ancient Beatles songbook. He then showed me a jazzy multi-tracked vocal piece that he'd composed and recorded with his roommates using Garageband. Dad's taxi is back in service tonight - he's off to sit in on a rehearsal of the county brass band. It's all very encouraging!

Green, DS is a music scholar because it was the only way he'd be able to go to the school he's at (you can only apply for a bursary if you are a scholar). He has to do GCSE music, but I believe he can be a music scholar in 6th form without having to do A level music. He doesn't want to persue a career in music (well, not the traditional classical route, at least) but he's happy to take an active part in the musical life of the school, which is what's expected. Lots of music scholars are also sports or academic scholars, so definitely not intending to have a performing career.

Do whatever it is you need to open doors for your DC, is what I say!

"Do whatever it is you need to open doors for your DC, is what I say!" Perfectly put Floot.

We're exploring specialist school for dd1 for y7: she lives and breathes music (she divides her life into two parts: before violin and after she started violin) and I think it'd be a good fit for her.

The local secondary school - realistically due to location we have a choice of one - will not provide any musical activities of any note pardon the pun. Unless she plays a brass instrument, or the guitar. No-one I speak to in RL understands the effect this might have on dd. It's like being gifted at tennis but going to a school where your only chance to shine at sports will be to play cricket.

And then there's the low-level bullying she's experienced since y3. It's been constant. Her teacher at parents evening commented that "dd seems very proud of herself" and I'm not sure she meant that in a positive way. My response was "She jolly well can be. She works very, very hard and her peers don't get that. She hasn't achieved by accident". Not sure the teacher quite got it tbh. She isn't even allowed to play in all concerts "to give everyone a chance". And yet it's the same kids time and time again on all the sports teams.

Like I say, in RL everyone tells me that because she's still got the local (excellent, I might add) service there's no need for specialism. Maybe they're right and I'm needlessly worrying. Who knows.

The other option would be to explore JD. Or perhaps the specialist school for Y12 on.

Sorry, it's a complete ramble but it fees like a mess!

I think certain kids ‘fit’ into a specialist music school, and often don’t fit anywhere else....so 4Strings- she’ll probbaly love it!

There's just the small matter of getting a place!!! Even if she doesn't, this whole thing has really focused her and has got her to think of doing work that isn't exam-related.

Thanks so much everyone. Lots of advice to go on! I do suspect my DD would fit in to a specialist school - she is well liked at school but definitely viewed as a bit "other" by peers - and if we hadn't found her current teacher I don't think we would have felt we had much choice but to send her. She is currently a very balanced, kind, generous, resolute child who seems fairly immune to peer pressure and in some ways I think that means she would cope very well with boarding and on the other hand I think it would be tragic if boarding undid any of that.

I'm not sure about Pro Corda v YNSSO as there seem to be enthusiastic votes for both! Both seems excessive!

The comments about JDs have come from experienced music teachers but that doesn't mean they're right. DD plans to reach G8 very rapidly (entirely her idea) and is very focused on doing that, so I am not too worried about rate of progression for the next year or two, but quite what we do after that when she really will need to be practising more, not sure.

As it is, she is supposed to do 25 minutes of homework every evening, plus reading and times tables, etc., and then also piano, theory, etc.. By the time I've got them home, fed, etc., the main issue is already getting to bed on time and I do try to give them a bit of time to just play. She is pretty quick at her homework but often it is open ended, e.g. see how far you can get through these exercises in 25 minutes, so she can't even curtail it by working faster. I really don't want her to end up burnt out simply because she is trying to fit her music in around a normal school life. Ideally, I'd really like her to be having musicianship and improvisation lessons as she is so keen and mops it all up, but this sort of education seems remarkably difficult to source locally and of course we also don't have time. I am dreading even trying to find a better piano teacher.

I will see if I can speak to a JD professor, though I did contact a few JDs whilst trying to find her current teacher and they were completely unhelpful. If I wanted to talk to someone I had to pay for a consultation!

Consultations are usually a very worthwhile investment Brass... perhaps not if you want a couple of quick answers to things but to really experience the college, get advice on your DD's playing and possible paths etc, it's extremely helpful. At JD and/or at Specialist School.

Have you tried Head of Strings at Guildhall?? In my experience he's always extremely helpful and very communicative.

To brass and 4 strings it’s hard I worry all the time that I’m getting it wrong - I think consultation lessons etc and having a look round well in advance if needing to make a decision can really help . Certainly I wouldn’t rule any particular route because somewhere has a better reputation it’s all about what suits your child at a particular time and if you keep yourself well informed opportunities have a funny way of presenting themselves !!

Just to illustrate a point, this little one is not at RCM/RAM or specialist school....

And I know this very talented lady's mum (herself a fabulous teacher) who says she didn't decide to really go for it until she was older, she said she was a late bloomer:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_Thompson?wprov=sfti1