October Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Welcome to the thread for October, which is open to ANYONE who wants to discuss music lessons, practice, exams, auditions, instrument hire/ purchase or whatever related issues you'd like to. Newbies are especially welcome, and we have some each month, often with beginners. All of our kids were beginners once.

I have two DDs. Goo is 12 and plays the flute and piano. She can also play recorders and the piccolo, but doesn't. We've just moved her to another piano teacher because the first one retired, so it's nice to hear her practising again. She has been learning for about 2.5 years and hasn't done any exams... nor is she intending to. On the flute we have extended range scales, the Chaminade Concertino and Bizet's Carmen Fantasy at the moment. She plays in 7 school ensembles and does NCO and South West Music School, although she's likely to be leaving both at various points during this academic year.

Rara is 10 and plays the cello and clarinet regularly, and recorder sometimes. She's vaguely working towards Grade 5 on both, but it might end up being 4 on the cello because of various aspects she's behind in... we'll see. I am still teaching her the clarinet and am currently super fed up because however kind, patient and helpful I am, she behaves in such a horrible way. We can't afford lessons. Ho hum. Rara also does NCO and SWMS. Under 11s will be beyond her, but she'll carry on with SWMS for now.

I am a teacher of woodwind!

Harriet - welcome to the thread, and what a lovely question! I am just a keen amateur, not a professional, but I played for my DCs a lot when they were tiny. Pieces I loved, not nursery rhymes (Beethoven and Chopin on the piano and loads of unaccompanied Bach on the violin). I fitted a mirror on the piano so I could see what they were doing . I don’t know if it made any difference to their musical development, but it kept me sane!

My two were not particularly early starters, around 7 for getting going in earnest, although DS2. But some on here started a lot earlier! Depends partly on the instrument, and partly on your DC’s physical development. Mine were (and are) clumsy.

Hi Harriet, congratulations on your new mini-musician is that the record for youngest child on the music thread? I expect you'll find with musical parents it happens really naturally. One thing I think you and mini would really enjoy over the years is getting hold of a well tuned kids' glockenspiel/piano toy. Ours is sadly out of tune which has been a bit painful, but still gets lots of use even though both DC play the piano now and youngest is 6. She sings the missing or out of tune notes!

Re when to start lessons, to some extent comes from child's interests. But also what quality music groups are there where you live? In our area there are fabulous music classes run by professional musicians that go right from baby through to primary age choirs and instrumental groups, something like that would be a great starting point. Also look out for things like Kodaly groups, Suzuki, colour strings, cello babies.

For us DS didn't want to have lessons at first but pottered through some beginner piano books with me till he asked for proper lessons at rising 8. DD on the other hand started violin lessons at 3. We chose a teacher that other music teachers recommended as good with little ones and she's been fab. Definitely most important thing is to have a teacher who likes working with the age group, formal learning at 3 would have been completely wrong. And you have to do it for the enjoyment now not any aim of bringing up prodigies, but I'm sure that's obvious to you as later starting musicians.

PS another keen amateur here

Hello @harrietm87!!! As a keen amateur musician I was always hopeful that my girls would be musical - I confess to participating in a prenatal programme where I sat for a time each day with earphones on my belly playing them this cd which started with a simple tone and built up over the weeks to a weird, hypnotic, complex piece! Everyone thought I was mad....

We sang a lot, bashed things a lot, went to baby singing groups. Noo's pitch was always very good, she could hold a tune (twinkle) against my harmony from about 3 which at the time I thought was no big deal. DD2 was not so overtly musical and I worried about that for a time - needlessly as it turns out!

I was adamant we would start Noo on an instrument at 4. But we were mid-build and I couldn't decide on an instrument! She eventually started with Suzuki violin training at 5 1/2 and we never liked back.

We started DD2 on violin at 4, also Suzuki. But she wasn't ready so we stopped. She then started piano at 5 and cello at 6.

IMO the real progress starts around 7-8. Before that, getting a good technical foundation is key but progress is pretty slow. I'm not sure we'd be much further ahead by starting younger. That said, I think they are more accepting of parental 'guidance' and it's easier to build good practice habits when they are very little.

Sorry - for the incomplete sentence... it should have said, “although I did a little bit of violin with DS2 from 6, but just a couple of 10 minute sessions a week”

If you want to get little children interested I can also highly recommend the Disney little Einstein’s DVD’s ...each episode has a theme of a classical piece and a piece of art...dd still recognizes tunes as coming from there! Not baby Einstein (that’s rubbish)...

disneynow.go.com/shows/little-einsteins

Never looked back... bloody autocorrect!

Lol folk. Sounds better than the horrific pre-natal yoga that I completely failed at. Memories of DH trying to suspend me upside down from the sofa at 36 weeks... [and back to the topic...]

Oh yes to little Einsteins! Dd1 was asked by her (childless) violin teacher what she wanted to play and her answer was 'little einsteins music' . I then had to explain what that meant to a somewhat baffled teacher

Thanks for the viola tips!

Very practical advise to bring the viola to the shop to check which size case, as I don’t know what size the violin is.
I will google carbon fiber viola bows. She is using her violin now, but tried teachers bow during last class and thought it sounded a lot better.

Hello, Harriet! Welcome to our lovely, friendly thread. ☺
Good question!
Both DH and I came from non-musical families, so in my case, I didn't start learning the flute until I was 9. However, I was lucky enough to go to primary and middle schools that had incredible, inspiring music teachers so I learnt recorder probably from about 5 and was taken to the Ernest Reed concerts at the Royal Festival Hall (anyone else remember those?) on Saturday mornings by the same teachers.
In my children's case, both went to Kindermusik as babies, and we left the Classic FM baby CDs playing as they went to sleep.(I'd forgotten that until just now!). The first concert they ever went to (at something like ages 7 and 5) was to see DH play in The Rite of Spring(!) and they've been going to family concerts and operas ever since.
All that said, DS didn't start learning an instrument until he was nearly 9, and DD only started singing lessons last year at nearly 14 ( and she can't read music still) - it sounds silly but we just assumed they'd ask to learn an instrument if they wanted to, so we waited for them to ask.
As Folk says, I don't think starting formal lessons when they're very young makes a huge amount of difference, in my experience. Developing an interest in music and a musical ear is just as worthwhile - so playing musical games that help high and low pitch recognition, rhythms etc is a really good starting point. Letting children hear and see instruments being played really helps them choose which one they might like to try.

If you live anywhere nearby, the Cushion Concerts in Oxford were our DC's first introduction to lots of different instruments:

jdp.st-hildas.ox.ac.uk/events/family-education

Just how effective they were at introducing children to music is probably best shown by the fact that, despite now living elsewhere, DS and his fellow clarinettist in the local county youth orchestra both attended them as very young children.

For us, they were the 'bridge' between normal 'toddler music sessions' involving singing and playing instruments, and the surprising request from DS, then age 7 or 8 'The clarinet teacher came round today and I said I wanted to start. Can I?'

(At the time we attended them, the concerts were led by 'Mr Mark', an Antipodean called Mark Hooper, whose version 'Mary, Mary the frightful fairy, how do your toenails grow?', learned when my children were toddlers, is still the one I revert to ...)

Sorry, Hairy Mary....and apparently it was meant to be 'five foot fairy', but i clearly had toddler brain at the time!

Thanks for the great replies! Floottoot I meant to say in my last post (and the reason I tagged you) was because you said you were a musician but it seemed like your kids hadn’t started until later. Interesting that you didn’t suggest it when they were younger! I play the horn so starting at 10 was absolutely fine, but DH is a pianist and feels that he missed out a bit by not starting earlier.

Anyway we have lots of time as baby is only 6 months (!) but (like all babies I suspect) is absolutely enthralled by live music and loves having us sing to him. I think DH wants him to have all the musical opportunities he didn’t have, whereas I just want him to love it, and conscious that he doesn’t feel any pressure from DH.

@catkind good idea re glockenspiel- we have one but it’s terribly out of tune so should get a proper one!

@cantkeepawayforever those look brilliant. We’re in London so I’m sure there will be similar

Hello and welcome to all the new faces!

And hope all NCO-ers had a fab day today.

Had very difficult piano lessons with both the DCs today. They both have exams in 2.5 weeks & it's falling apart a bit. As we are now, DD is a borderline pass & DS is a very definite not pass. Sigh. I am tired, we are all tired and none of us are in the mood to devote half of our precious half-term to sorting it out.

I loved seeing both the girls together. It was so special. A (now ex) pupil and her mum came with us, as the girl us auditioning on Thursday and i wanted to inspire her. It worked!! U11s totally unrealistic for Rara but she might well try for regionals. Goo was in tears by the end - she finally realised that because of her inflexibility and a bunch of decisions she has made this year, it's the end of the line for her. Well, she could try for Mains next year I suppose, but she probably won't. Her pain over last year has resulted in her never playing to anyone, ever. Hope she will come out the other side one day.

to Goo. I can imagine that DD2 might go the same way if she doesn’t get into U12s this year, particularly if her friends do. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. for you Waffle

Hi Harriet !!
Waffle so glad today was inspiring and lovely . Are you sure Goo can’t just audition anyway ( assuming you booked her a slot just in case ?) im sure she has pieces that she can use . It’s a tricky age though hopefully she will come out the other side and will feel better about it all ( and maybe audition for mains )

Right finally done after a tiring few weeks. Drum competition yesterday. School symphony orchestra concert today. Now a rare two weeks where all three children have absolutely no music scheduled at all. Yippee....red wine time.

Aw melting, do you think just having a break might straighten things out? I'd try a small amount of sitting back and practicing corners slowly and lots of relaxation!

Herts and all.

Poor goo, waffle. Still, maybe it will help her sort out what she does want? She has so many options.

Def second Little Einstein’s - fantastic fun plus great music 😀

Waffle - glad the concert was lovely; can’t imagine your two wouldn’t get regionals - would Goo not enjoy doing that again if she didn’t get u13s (and she must be in with a good chance of thst too)? Also no reason not to audition Mains after s year out- there are often people on here who get in to Mains having never done NCO before x

Good luck today mini crazy !!
Changing teachers is so hard pleased that the new piano teacher might work out - fingers crossed . Not good about the clarinet teacher though - speaking as an ex teacher here they need to try harder to understand your dd . Obviously it’s only human that you “get” some children quicker than others ( and they build a bond with you) but as their teacher it’s your job to work out what makes them tick !!
I feel your pain though ds has ( probably) got 2 new music teachers this term . Piano was sorted easily but was a massive change to a very different teacher and set up which thankfully worked out and he thinks she’s great .

Changing trumpet teachers has caused me a lot of stress but I think we might have sorted it .

I guess that’s what’s hard about jd - sometimes I wish someone would sort teacher problems for ds and make sure he has a lesson every week as would happen at a jd . But at least if we get to choose then we can pick who we thinks a good fit even if it is a long way from where we live

Crazy - hps they both work out; we had to move teachers this year for logistical and other reasons. We are on lesson 5 with new teacher and it’s been ok I think - def taking them time to adjust and find their working pattern; we don’t have too many choices if this doesn’t work so am ve much fingers crossed about it