How to respond to "hothousing" comments?

[ItsHarryTheDirtyDog]

Other than smile and ignore, of course...

I am involved in setting up a fairly niche extracurricular activity - a primary-level Classics club - in a small town where education isn't particularly valued by quite a lot of the population. Coming from a background that would see this as being an obviously good thing, I have been perplexed by repeatedly being told that the club is a stupid idea and can only possibly be for parents who want to "hothouse" their poor children.

I've said in response that actually it's a lot easier for children to learn both English and foreign languages if they have a reasonable grasp of grammar and vocab roots, and that Latin is a great way to learn it, as well as being interesting in its own right. That it's far easier to learn a foreign language before age 10 than after. And that teaching kids basic skills in something that adults do isn't hothousing, it's teaching them basic skills in something that they're interested in.

None of this seems to get through, though.

I am going to be interviewed by the local paper, which is a bit of a redneck rag, and I bet this will come up.

Anyone got any suggestions as to what to say to people who seem to disapprove of extracurricular activities that actually involve any form of brain activity?

I love you just for the use of "adjunct"!

But Percy (Perseus) Jackson is Greek...

You probably are houthousing but saying that, I was hothoused and came out okayish. I haven't much in the way of social skills, damned ASC.
My DD is 3.5 and reading mid way reception books confidently so maybe I am going the same way. When she is five she'll start a MFL and probably Latin. Wish you were in my area if it's free.

However, it's Latin. It's going to attract some comments. Just keep going if it is your passion.

I am from a country where everyone learns at least 3 other MFL at (secondary) school. I found that having learned Latin at school helped me with learning these MFL.

When my children where a bit younger I did think about suggesting to my dc prim school to run an after-school Latin group. Having read this thread I am glad I didn't. I did buy the Minimus book and dc3 really enjoyed it.

You're response to the hothousing accusation, is an admission that it's hothousing

I've said in response that actually it's a lot easier for children to learn both English and foreign languages if they have a reasonable grasp of grammar and vocab roots

If you asked coaches and people why they were encouraging kids to do the gross motor skill activities, you wouldn't be told: "Physical fitness is extremely important and the transfer of skills from rugby has been shown to make taking on other sports easier." You're told - "running around a rugby field is a lot of fun."

All hobbies have benefits beyond the hobby, but the reason to do the hobby should not be about those benefits, it should be about the intrinsic pleasure of the hobby.

Lots of parents do pick the hobbies for their children based on the associated benefits rather than the pleasure of the hobby, everything you've said so far gives the impression that these are your customers - parents like that though are hothousing their children. And lots of parents hothouse their kid into football from a young age, or some other parent desired activity.

You need to make your customers the children, and show what they'll get out of the hour, the same as the cookery club gets some cookies to eat, the robotics club gets a robot escaping a maze. Any questions from the journo' about hot-housing and academic benefits etc. need to be avoided and brought back to the fun the kids are getting out of it.

I consider out of school activities to be "for fun", so while they might also be beneficial (e.g. learning a musical instrument) that's the prime motivation. I can't see a young DC choosing to do a classics club.

Therefore you're looking at a market where parents are telling their DC they have to do the club because they (the parents) consider it to be worthy. And yes, these do tend to be the parents whose DC do a different club (sometimes 2) every day of the week. Not sure I'd use the word "hothousing" but it's definitely pushy IMO.

How do you know that a lot of the population of your town don't value education?

I am very highly educated - I have two masters degrees if that means anything. My son is 14 now but at primary level I would not have pointed him towards academic learning outside school hours. Nor did I give two hoots about SATs. Primary children today are under increasing pressure. I wanted him to run around, have fun, let off steam and yes develop gross motor skills. My son has poor fine motor skills. It was only when we started working on the gross motor skills that the fine motor skills started to develop.
This does not mean that I am uninterested in education, just that I believe that education is much broader than academic learning.

But Latin is a standard part of the curriculum of any good prep school at that age. I don't see how teaching them something that is a normal part of education is hothousing. I didn't learn Latin myself (not taught where I went to school, modern languages were favoured) but I thought it was pretty standard in Britain. So your club would be like a gap filler for children who miss out because their school doesn't offer Latin. Does you town have any roman history? You could cone at it from that angle.

Most prep schools don't start till age 9 surely? Sounds like OP is aiming at a lower age group.
If I was interested in this, I'd also want to know what happened once your child got a bit older and might be interested in learning Latin in more depth - very few state schools offer it - is OP also offering an extra curricular session for older primary/secondary school age DC? Or will they learn a few basics, and then forget them?

Oh, maybe I misunderstood. I thought OP meant her club for children who were missing out at school, not little ones. @OP is it fir little ones or is it fir kids who don't get to do it at school?

I can't think of any kids that would actively chose Latin as an extra curricular activity, but I can think of lots of parents who would think Latin is a great extra curricular.... so I think that falls under the hot housing umbrella.
And I speak as someone whose DD did 5 years of Latin at school and loved it, but even she wouldn't choose it as an activity to wind down after school

I guess if there's a market for it you will soon know, but I wouldn't hold my breath

Salve

Caecilius est in horto. Matella est in dormitorio.

I do remember some other bits from my latin but that is the first thing that came to mind!

If someone ran free latin lessons near us then my kids would be there. I personally didn't read your message as snobby, or that you were saying latin was more important than ruby, I agree, why are some activities seen as ok but "intellectual" ones are seen as pushy?

Are you running the club for kids to have fun or for parents to get their kids to study? If it’s the former then it’s not hothousing. Hothousing means getting kids to study lots out of school. I read a lot when I was a kid but it wasn’t hothousing because my parents weren’t making me do it and it wasn’t related to schoolwork or study.

All you need to say to the journo is that some kids enjoy Latin and classical civilisation and the history element of it and enjoy doing that stuff, so you’re organising the club to give them a chance to pursue that interest. Nobody has to be there who doesn’t want to be - that’s not what fun means. Etc.

It's only hothousing if you were making kids do hours of work when they'd rather be playing. What you are doing sounds fun and good for them. Dd's comp offered latin when we were picking schools but had to stop it due to funding cuts unfortunately. I'd like dd to have had the opportunity to do it

To clarify it's being aimed at the 9-12 age group. It's a Classics club where the Percy Jackson enthusiasts can hear about Greek stuff, and where everyone gets to do about 20 minutes of Latin a week.

Ted27, it's not just me who says this about valuing education in its own right, it's a lot of people. Sport is seen as great achievement, but other than that you're meant to cut down tall poppies lest they ever think of getting too big for their boots, and anything vaguely foreign is suspicious. Things are improving, and as I said there is a (minority) target demographic for this club and for things like the youth orchestra and Alliance Française. But it's a bit of an uphill struggle.

But how do you know, where is your evidence that most people in your town do not value education.

I don't think I recognise this world tall poppies are meant to be cut down. I also make the point again that education is about more than academic learning.

We live in a fairly large diverse multi cultural city. My son attends a state school which celebrates both academic and sporting success and importantly participation and effort. The many cultures represented by the student body are respected and celebrated. My son will never achive great academic heights, but he is encouraged and supported to achieve to the best of his ability. He has friends who are much more academically able than he is. They all get on great with each other, as do the parents. I am not envious of their children's academic success, nor do they exclude us because my son is less able.

Going off on a tangent a bit, but something you may be missing about sport is the way it brings people together, transcends differences, creates communities - think about the world cup, the Olympics, Wimbledon, the London Marathon. Our summer holiday this year involved quite a few Welsh castles, my son learnt a lot about Edward 1, the Welsh kings, castle construction, he also learnt quite a lot down the slate mines of industrial history and the origins of trade unions. I think his most enduring memory though will be of his mates, coming round for pizza and pop corn, cheering and yelling for England and having a sleepover in the shed.

I'm sure there is a market for the club you want to set up, whether its hot housing is clearly debatable. If my son wanted to go, I wouldn't prevent him from doing so. But the fact that he currently chooses sport clubs over anything else, and I do not intervene, says nothing about how much I value education.

A good well rounded education is about so very much more than academic learning.

I think you'd be good for Home educators or private schools.

It gives a deeper understanding of children's fiction. Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, or anything inspired by classical mythology can be better appreciated with a basic knowledge of the words that make up the spells/names/places

It helps to develop your other language skills, because Latin is the root of almost all EU languages

It's out of the ordinary, and kids love doing things that are unusual

If they directly use the term "hothousing" then point out that it isn't caused by the class, but by the parents. A kid who comes to one latin class per week can't be described as hothoused, but someone whose parents force them to go to 8 different clubs and learn 3 instruments and speak 5 languages is definitely being hothoused, yet we don't blame the piano teacher for all of that. You just want kids to have every possible chance to have fun and learn something new. If it helps them make friends, great. If it helps them with their studies, great. If it gets them out the house so the parents can have a cuppa, so much the better! And of course anything is better than another 2 hours of Fortnite ^^

I'm on the fence. We have a long-running family joke at my DF's expense that I was hothoused. I remember him filipping out at me one summer holiday day for watching daytime tv as apparently I should have been looking at the Teach Yourself Ancient Greek handbook he'd bought for me earlier that week 🙄

Saying that, DD's (state primary) school has a classics club I think and covers a bit of Latin in a project/Roman studies kind of way I think. But she's only Reception so I'm keeping it simple at the moment

I want to start up a classics club - my daughter, and several other of her friends would be very up for learning latin, learning a bit of ancient greek, wearing togas, talking about mythology, looking at attic pots and going to the local museum.

I learnt all this stuff within the school curriculum but it's not offered at primary at all. They did a bit of roman stuff I think.

The interest for my daughter started at around 5 when I introduced her to mythology as an antidote to modern religion and now at 10 she's still fascinated. She'd love to learn Latin, she's been introduced to it through various things but I haven't retained enough of my Latin to be confident teaching her. We talk about etymology and whether a word comes from Greek, Latin or Germanic roots and we look at references in literature to mythology, or see where some of our idioms come from. It just opens worlds.

`you might want to consider how you market your club. Are you teaching Latin in a structured way, every lesson, or are you teaching children about the classical world. Epics and Heroes are as much about Classics as Latin is. You might get more interest if it sounds interactive, story-led and fun.

I wonder if you are overthinking this a bit?

Don’t jump to defend yourself or assume you are being attacked by the journalist.

It’s pretty simple: you are offering a service to the children in the community. The classes will be fun and interactive. Novels such as those by JK Rowling and Rick Riordan have given rise to an increased interest in Latin among young people.

I don't really think parents don't et the usefulness of Latin for learnin rammar, I think it will be more their DC who are not interested in learning a dead language. No parent wants the weekly battle of making kids go to something they don't want to

I was taught Latin at school and my children learn it too at their respective schools (from age 12). Would I have considered a classics club from 9-12? No. Why?
1 - At that age they were already doing lots of activities after school, which I would have prioritised over Latin; e.g. music, sport, etc
2 - There are only so many clubs children can do after school and prioritisation means that if it is a sport or music for me it will always come first - I do believe many parents feel the same way.

If I was you I wouldn’t exactly deny hothousing (it’s quite a subjective/emotive term I find) but I would say something like ‘I am passionate about giving all children the opportunities that the most privileged get’ or something similar to that effect. Aka if it’s worthless how come people who pay through the nose for education have it on the curriculum

Nona grey said it better! Just say what you are doing, don’t worry about people who don’t see the value in it, that’s life.