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Extra-curricular activities

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September 2018 Music Thread

905 replies

folkmamma · 01/09/2018 08:21

Hi all! Our lovely host Waffle is away at the moment and has asked me to start this months thread.

Here is a place for us to share stories, ask for advice, and generally support one another through our DCs (and in some cases our own!) musical journeys. All are very welcome, from the early beginners to the very advanced. Some people have been regular contributors for years, but we also have a lot of newcomers and love welcoming new contributors to the MN Music Thread team. I became aware of this group about 9 months ago via the NCO 2018 thread and I now spend more time here than on Facebook... Grin.

Over here, I have Noo, just turned 11, violinist, violist and pianist. She is playing at aroud G7 standard on violin (first study) and is starting JD this month, eek!. Noo is also an associate member of NCO and this year joined the Pro Corda ensemble training programme, which she loves above all else! She is also very into musical theatre and regularly performs in professional and semi-professional shows - it is a challenge to juggle it all, but somehow we do. This month is a biggie for Noo as she starts secondary school as well as JD.

DD2 is Moll. 8yrs old and plays cello and piano. She is a very different kettle of fish to big sister - every bit as able, but some self esteem issues, together with a slightly quirky personality, mean her journey is not often quite so smooth (and mine completely turbulent!). Working towards G3 cello this term (although she doesn’t know it yet) and will go for a consultation at Noo’s JD sometime this term also.

I’m sure Waffle will drop in to update us on Goo, Rara and her own musical self once she gets back from holibobs.

Good luck to everyone with back to school, changes in school, new routines and audition prep! I predict September will be a busy month on the thread!

Over to you.... Smile

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Mistigri · 23/09/2018 12:18

Green I'm going to give a different perspective. Yes, it's lovely to reach adulthood able to play to a decent standard, but most adults who learnt to play as children don't, unless they have a genuine love for it and some sort of intrinsic motivation.

We reached the same point with DD at the same age. I stopped paying for lessons because I wasn't prepared to battle over practice. She later took up two completely different instruments, both to a reasonable but not exceptional level, and I think she will continue to make music, even though at the moment she's in a hiatus period (due to starting uni studies - we haven't been able to get her guitar to Paris yet and she doesn't have room for a piano). She isn't interested in technical virtuosity but she does like composing (and is good at it).

DS never showed any interest in music until last summer, and after my experience with DD I didn't push it. And now here he is at 15, a very competent guitarist, and more recently playing piano every spare moment. Of course if I had pushed him to take piano lessons as a young child he would be a much better pianist now, but he might not have the same passion for it.

Obviously if money isn't an issue you can just pay for lessons and just not fight battles over practice, but personally I think this usually just postpones the moment of no return. And it may even prevent your DD discovering what interests her about making music. It may not be classical piano.

folkmamma · 23/09/2018 12:30

Green I am in the 'keep her going for fun' camp. You never know how her priorities are going to change with time and there may come a day where she decides to really go for it. The podcast Crazy suggested is very enlightening on the subject of practice- worth a listen.

I wasn't always committed to practice as a child, and my parents stayed out of my music making as bless them they didn't have a clue!! I still achieved G8 on 2 instruments, taught myself to play several others, got an A at A level which went down very well on my science-based uni applications. I have played in orchestras and sung in choirs for much of my adult life- yes there have been some long breaks but I always find my way back to music, it's my safe place. And now I am loving passing this gift (and it is a gift my parents gave me, albeit with their limited knowledge) on to my girls.

You don't have to be a 'serious' musician to reap the benefits of childhood music lessons.

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PatricksViolin · 23/09/2018 12:58

I may have an opposite case of those wishing their DCs take music more seriously (not to be a musician but to set up proper regular practice to be competent etc). I introduced piano to DS's world hoping it would enrich his life. When he started showing he was rather doing well, I thought of him enjoying opportunities and friendship at secondary school and thought that' wonderful. I supported him as much as I could but never really encouraged him to be this serious.... Grin

PatricksViolin · 23/09/2018 13:02

Having said that I am talking about an ignorant 11 years old who hasn't entered the horrible teen years yet. I'd better prepare myself for any change of his attitude (or interest...)!

druidsong · 23/09/2018 13:33

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Greenleave · 23/09/2018 14:57

I lost my long post, awwggg!!!

Thanks everyone! She isnt too bad(g7 piano and g5 violin for sometime now, although we dont plan for exam at the moment) but deinitely could do better. She loves her playing opportunity(Orchestra or solo at school) but not working toward the standard. Both (very easy and relaxed) teachers complains that 30 mins 3 times a week each instruments isnt enough. It isnt because she is busy with 11+, she is academic, we are not worried about her academic or do much at all(all with 1.5 hrs tutor a week with a group and whatever homework given, we havent done any camp or any else). We just think she needs to spend more time or do something else(she loves drawing and swimming too), do 1 activity she loves but try her best for it, just because she can be very good at it. At the same time, sometimes she shows she loves music too and if we tell her to stop now she could be lost and dont want it. I am ok for another year carrying on like this but I do think the attitude has to change or may be because I havent done enough to guide her(need to be on this thread more for example).

ealingwestmum · 23/09/2018 15:02

It's an interesting debate - whether high level music achievement carries forward to adulthood. I am amazed at how many adults (young and my age group) that I meet, who played instruments to very good levels, but have never touched them since leaving education.

I think that not only does it depends on the child, but also how entrenched music making is amongst other things they do. If your friends whom you spend every day with, are also those who you make music with (formally and off-line, so to speak), then then there is, perhaps, more stickability to this carrying on into later life. A bit like eating a food and it instantly taking you back to a fond memory. Might make you want to cook more, because you reminded constantly about the pleasure you got. Associated links that our DC create on this thread, through their music groups, NCO/NYO/camps, ensembles etc etc, all provide positive connectors and entrench more if you are doing it with 'your type of people'.

I'm sorry, I'm babbling, but see this in my DD's swimming world too. Those that get that the sport is both an individual and a team game get the most out of it (as well as being around people like them, who can't party all hours, cram homework, do same training hours etc), often get each other more and are also the most likely to take up a masters class etc, or swim early morning up and down a lane because they've learned how de-stressing this is for them, just like tinkling or improvising on piano keys for hours when they should be practising their scales can be, or jamming with their friends. This on top of their 'day' hours. The camaraderie with any specialist learning can help alleviate periods of highs and lows in motivation, helping to nurture a love of learning something hard (piano, swimming etc) vs just going through the motions, albeit to high standards, like rote exam taking leaving some cold.

i may be wrong Druid, but having attaching strong values to piano learning from the start, as well as your DS finding his people early that are, bonus wise, also his music people helped cement his love because they are both entwined. Not to say that his passion and determination would not have been achieved alone, just like Mistri's, albeit in later teenage years. Just both DS' seemed to engage really well with their music with both a hands on and hands off approach and early journeys, resulting in similar drives.

All that, to say I don't know what the answer is. I know I used to say there was more we could do with our money if DD didn't want to progress with something, but not to disrespect the teacher of said thing either by not practising. Making it her call, pointing out the possible consequences was all I could do. I was never tested on it Green, and by the sounds of it, your DD has not said either that she wants to quit. Once one stops comparing where a child should be (vs MN, RL kids etc that are excelling), and just let them learn at own speed, a natural love or hate will fall out. Few years back, inside I would be dying, thinking how many hours does this girl have to spend in the pool before she realises she'll never catch up with the others and is not that great. And now, I'm a little embarrassed to not have seen not only the late developer, but the extra value she got from it all, but needed my patience, for her to be patient.

Greenleave · 23/09/2018 15:09

Oh Ealing, but I’d love mine to find love in it and self motivated similar to miniEaling with swimming. I feel like she is lost and not having any real passions now. We could drop music a little and start paying for drawing classes or chess but if these are really what she wants to stick with and allow or encourage to give up we could risk that she will do the same for anything later, not trying hard and overcome “ down phases”.

ealingwestmum · 23/09/2018 15:11

x-post green Smile

One final thing to add. I winced a little (I know it was not being negative at anyone, just my sensitivity) when a poster said 30 mins of piano lesson at G8 showed lack of seriousness.

I think it does for most children wanting to drive music, but...we have not had anything but 30 mins in term time lessons x 1 per week, really struggling on setting regular practise time, yet DD still plays and gets pretty decent results and prepping G8. But has turned out pretty decent results.

She's no where as good as yours is naturally Green ( I remember her play), so get her through this exam period and review together after, or even after Y7, what she is then enjoying. Your levels are plenty for now!

ealingwestmum · 23/09/2018 15:16

DD has only felt the way she does now Green for the last 18 months. Was not committed before. And is 15 now. Don't be too hard on yours Flowers

Greenleave · 23/09/2018 15:19

Ealing, that was what I was thinking!!! Maybe that might change...sometimes later...just carry on for now. My hysband also has a good point saying her time and our money could be better spent in Arts or chess. Only if we have unlimited time a day(and unlimited fund).

ealingwestmum · 23/09/2018 15:26

Well then hang in there, she'll let you know also. And if it's not music, you've not lost anything but an already very good musician. Catch up is never impossible on something else (as Mistri has demonstrated)

And thankfully, patience costs nothing Grin

ealingwestmum · 23/09/2018 15:40

I’ve clearly got verbal D today. Don’t under-estimate how stressful 11plus is on DC. Even the very composed, self assured children all deep down have an element of uncertainty to where their future years will be. Not all will verbalise this but may show lack of motivation in other things that they normally enjoy, just by being mentally tired of it all.

Greenleave · 23/09/2018 15:49

Yes, that is also very true Ealing, she doesnt show any sign of nervousness but she might have hidden it well too as she is constantly asking about school choices.

Mistigri · 23/09/2018 16:52

I am amazed at how many adults (young and my age group) that I meet, who played instruments to very good levels, but have never touched them since leaving education.

Not just this, but the majority of adults I know who make music regularly came to music as adult beginners, or like my DS started as teenagers.

druidsong · 23/09/2018 17:36

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hertsandessex · 23/09/2018 17:47

I started playing trumpet aged around 10-11 with a local marching/brass band sort of having lessons. I liked it at first but after a while hated it. I desperately wanted to stop and my parents agreed. Druidsong how I wish I had your parents and that they had made me persevere! :)

druidsong · 23/09/2018 17:49

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druidsong · 23/09/2018 17:50

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hertsandessex · 23/09/2018 18:24

Druidsong you too on the music front :)

PatricksViolin · 23/09/2018 18:35

Interesting debate going on! I think whether making DC stick to it or stop it really depend on the child, family, background, expectation and all that and there aren't one answer to it. So it's interesting to see different views from different experiences. I hope eventually we all feel happy with a path we chose for our DCs who are all with full of potential. It's quite normal to see DCs being good at more than one thing so you can let them carry on and enjoy their multi-talent or help them choose one to be excel at, maybe when they are still relatively younger or wait a little longer. I think both can work. Smile

PatricksViolin · 23/09/2018 18:55

Geen, re, tutoring for 11+, I think your approach of letting her have weekly tutoring for a year or so is much wiser than what I did (no tutoring, then panicked at the last minute and ordered text books to go through his weak area - comprehension! - over the winter holiday for the exams in Jan...). Little work spread over a longer period is a lot less stressful and gentle - wish I knew!

Greenleave · 23/09/2018 19:36

Hert: thats what made me worried, whether we are sticking for long enough. However, frustrating with little respect to the teachers of so little practice. I am even thinking of going back to something like a stickers which worked really well for couple of years. Its the two ways game, you could only enjoy it if you are good at it and being praised for the progress:((.
Patricks: yes, we really have no choice as no time at home during the week and there is a young sibling for the weekend. MiniPatricks did amazingly well though, we wish we could do the same. Still long way there. Our tutor sadly focuses on Tiffin so she doesnt do VR neither NVR, I have been knowing it for sometimes but I havent done anything, I dont know where the time gone. VR is ok but last time we did NVR, it wasnt good enough. We bought the RSL packs( thanks String for recommendation, we like it most, we save the volume 2 for December)

Mistigri · 23/09/2018 20:02

it's not unusual for teenagers to sometimes want to drop everything (the exception being Mistigiri's DS!!!).

DS has dropped other stuff - he has stopped competitive sport (BMX) though he still goes to club training once a week if i insist hard enough. I think one of the reasons he's so keen on music is that it's new and therefore interesting. Also starting as a teen makes it possible to progress v quickly in the early stages - you get a lot of bangs for your practice bucks.

And finally his parents keep telling him to stop doing it, so that makes it even more attractive Wink. I've booted him off the piano three times today, now he's making a racket on the guitar when he's supposed to be getting his school bag sorted out.

MeltingWax · 23/09/2018 20:22

I have been listening to the Leeds piano competition - the pianist who came 2nd was by far my favourite.

Did exam entries for my 2 today - am sure the prices have gone up Shock - or it felt like it anyway...

DP recorded DS on the piano today. If I can figure out how to upload to the channel it might be our first contribution!

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