September 2018 Music Thread

[folkmamma]

Hi all! Our lovely host Waffle is away at the moment and has asked me to start this months thread.

Here is a place for us to share stories, ask for advice, and generally support one another through our DCs (and in some cases our own!) musical journeys. All are very welcome, from the early beginners to the very advanced. Some people have been regular contributors for years, but we also have a lot of newcomers and love welcoming new contributors to the MN Music Thread team. I became aware of this group about 9 months ago via the NCO 2018 thread and I now spend more time here than on Facebook... .

Over here, I have Noo, just turned 11, violinist, violist and pianist. She is playing at aroud G7 standard on violin (first study) and is starting JD this month, eek!. Noo is also an associate member of NCO and this year joined the Pro Corda ensemble training programme, which she loves above all else! She is also very into musical theatre and regularly performs in professional and semi-professional shows - it is a challenge to juggle it all, but somehow we do. This month is a biggie for Noo as she starts secondary school as well as JD.

DD2 is Moll. 8yrs old and plays cello and piano. She is a very different kettle of fish to big sister - every bit as able, but some self esteem issues, together with a slightly quirky personality, mean her journey is not often quite so smooth (and mine completely turbulent!). Working towards G3 cello this term (although she doesn’t know it yet) and will go for a consultation at Noo’s JD sometime this term also.

I’m sure Waffle will drop in to update us on Goo, Rara and her own musical self once she gets back from holibobs.

Good luck to everyone with back to school, changes in school, new routines and audition prep! I predict September will be a busy month on the thread!

Over to you....

Do you fight over piano with your DS?

We literally do. I have to practice when he is at school and if DH wants to watch TV after dinner he has to evict DS from the piano first LOL. Even now school has started it's a rare day that he doesn't play for a couple of hours.

MrBeans there is no reason why your DD shouldn't be able to pick up classical notation, teens can learn surprisingly quickly. My 15 year old DS started guitar a year ago, just learning from tab initially, and gradually over the last year he has learnt a lot of theory and more recently has taught himself to read music "properly" (because he wanted to play piano - he still uses tab for guitar).

Thanks Misti I think she will do it she seems quite keen to learn everything.

MrBean

Completely different instrument, but my dh taught a lad of 14 who didn't read music and started for the first time in Y9.
He is now at a top performing arts college, and doing very well in his second year now.
He was determined and like a sponge, a winning combination.
I wish your dd all the luck in the world.
Oh, and contrary to what many would believe many musicians are shy.

I totally agree that grades don't always show true musicianship ability. DD took her gr4 before summer and got a distinction, however, the new piano teacher is having to start from scratch with sight reading because it is so sketchy and she hasn't been formally taught to read. I think sight reading for exams and auditions is a completely different experience to sight reading to learn a piece.
DD has said no more exams until gr 7 or 8 lol. Fine with me

Skipping grade saves money, owlm. DS did only g8 for his violin. A massive saver.

MrBeans one of DS's friends only started to learn to read music when he began the music GCSE. He had learned to play piano by ear - he's very good and now st college doing music.
The Rockschool grade books are handy for proving what level the piece you're playing is at, but you don't actually have to take the exams. DS1 did grade 6 and grade 8 on electric bass and DS2 is grade 4 level on electric guitar but just works through various pieces.

Sorry to keep talking about this grade talk, but just one more thing popped in my mind.

A 10 years old girl who's been working on g8 syllabus auditioned for DS's jd. Much surprise to many, she even didn't get through the first stage. How come g8 at 10 cannot pass the first stage?? I don't know this girl personally but apparently the parent is a bit obsessed with grade (perhaps they are not musical so grade is the only way for them to understand her achievement). She may not have attained enough skills for g8 yet, but she may have had solid skills for g5-6, In which case, if she had played something comfortably within her ability (g5-6 instead of g7-8) she may have passed.

I think this example shows how you play is more important than how difficult your pieces are.

Patricks

Not meaning to sound condescending but the auditions are about far more than what they play, or aural or even general musicianship.
ime the ones that don't get in at audition for either jd or specialist music school either lack potential or are unteachable.
They need the potential because otherwise they'd be taking the place of somebody who has got potential. it's a waste of time auditioning at grade 6 and still being a grade 6 when you leave, so they have to ensure this doesn't happen, by testing for potential.
Likewise they need kids who will turn up, settle down, rehearse and generally progress, not disruption, and general bad attitude.
This includes those who think they know better/ parents not willing to accept the terms, and of course kids doing for parents and not child led.

Romany (and others) - these are genuine question as DS2 will be auditioning for jd in 2 years time, if he is still interested to at that point.

How do they assess potential at audition? And how do they weed out the uncooperative families? Do they also interview parents? I can see how the music schools have time for a comprehensive process, but I though jd's did a shortish audition, a bit like nco. Is there other information that feeds into the process? As always, I am worrying ahead...

Hi Taggie. As you know, we went through this process earlier this year. Prior to submitting our applications, we went to 'one-to-one' tours of the JD's rather than going to open days, and I engaged in personal correspondence with Principals / Head of Strings in a friendly, not overbearing kind of way.... So they knew our names before she auditioned. I also emailed immediately after auditions to thank them for their time and let them know what a benefit going through the process had been, irrespective of the outcome. A bit sucky, but hey-ho. She got offers from both colleges and the feedback afterwards was that they look for potential, a great attitude, a nice personality, supportive parents and sometimes will even consider sibling achievement as an indicator in addition to the things you might expect, like good technique, quality of sound and general musicality. (and HoS at GH liked her bow arm ). As Romany said, they won't take the 'unteachable' for whatever reason, no matter how good they are. I do think there has to be a special 'something' that comes through, no matter how technically able they are - although I'm not sure anyone can define what that thing is.... I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. I'm sure mini-Taggie will charm the socks off everyone xx

I was very conscious that we as parents were under scrutiny too.... although there was no interview or anything like that.

Good questions Taggie. We have been through the specialist music school process and even then I did wonder how they really can assess potential comparing so many children who are already at a pretty high standard. Apart from audition there was lots of aural, sight reading, improv type tests and a music interview with lots of unusual questions. There was also an interview with head with parents (although we weren't allowed to speak much to make sure we didn't guide the answers). The one question I do remember was asking DS what he thought was the most important thing in order to be a professional and he said practice which was the main answer they wanted. I remember talking after DS joined about what how they decided and the comment I got was sometimes they just know really quickly, yes or no, based on performance/presence/musicality which are things you basically cannot teach.

Thanks Folk - it sounds a bit like applying to a private school wrt families. It isn't in the criteria and it isn't formal, but you know they are watching you! Hopefully I will be more organised about jd than school applications and actually get to look at the place before application...

I may take DS2 for a consultation this year some time so that we can get into the system, and see where we are. He is resistant to being taught regularly by anyone other than me (I'm sure that will change!!), but a consultation would be fine. He loved his pro corda master class

It's not the grade someone is but whether their playing (literally) gives me goose bumps or not....

thanks herts - my post crossed with yours. I've heard that too, about just 'knowing' whether there is potential (which is one reason a consultation would be interesting). Interesting about the professional musician question. Do most of the DCs who go to jd's become professional musicians? I heard that it was about 50/50, but that the proportion was much higher at the music schools. There must be statistics!

found - DS2's playing sometimes gives me goose bumps, but for all the wrong reasons .

But seriously, I do know what you mean. mini-patrick and mini-folk and many others on this thread who post on cluster have that effect

Taggie - I don't know about becoming professional but it seems around 80% at specialist school go on to music college (and most of others study for a music degree). Presume it must be a lot less for JDs but I don't know. I think the question is to make sure the child is committed to music and not just joining because parents pushing them or because parents see it as a cheap way to get into a good private school using the MDS.

@TaggieOHara definitely go for consultations. BFF currently going through consultations with teachers from several JD's and it's proving very useful in informing their choices - not that you can base an opinion on a whole college from one teacher, but they can give a steer on whether DC is around the right standard and any obvious issues to work on.

And thank you for the lovely comments re: Noo xxx

Taggie
It's amazing how the auditioning panel work, it really is. I know at dd school they tend to get it right 99% of the time, there will always be somebody who gets through that maybe shouldn't as their heart isn't in it. They are usually good at spotting this, initially by your application form and the general questions they ask during the audition.

We weren't interviewed but got to meet the head after an offer was made. I thought she'd blown it at one point because they took her off to meet the boarding head of House who just asked her some simple questions, was very laid back and a sort of get to know you, type of thing. She came back and said they asked why she wanted to go to the school. Her reply was "Because I'm a musician and this is where they come to improve and learn more. Apparently it was the best answer he'd got all day. I was worried as it sounded like she'd been prepped, but we didn't as we had no idea what to expect ourselves.

Sometimes they will give the children direction in the music, ask them to do something different, if they do it with no argument or comment they know they respond to direction, which is what they are looking for.
They can tell potential by what they have done in the past, present and the ensembles they have played in. A bit like a job application, really.
There are the musical tests as well that can prove potential, can they carry a tune in a bucket do they have good aural awareness, not judged by grades but a usual level for their age.

They can usually gain a good idea of the child's attitude and potential during a short audition. I guess they get used to knowing straight away almost.
I can remember a boy going in before dd, a different instrument but still woodwind. I don't know why but I just had a feeling he wouldn't get in, there were several there that day, all different ages and he looked different to the others, I don't know how.
All the others got in from that group except for the boy. Dh said it was because his dad had red socks on with a suit, and that attitude had been passed on to his child
I believe their face has to fit, which is good because you'd never want your child in an environment that wasn't right.
As dd boards we assess her suitability at least every half term, because it's more important if they aren't at home so often. As good as the school is we would remove her instantly if she wasn't happy or it stopped being a good fit.
I think with jd's they have to look more at commitment as obviously it's not a school and not compulsory. I suppose questions about social life at weekend might crop up, so you tell him to say he doesn't do anything at the weekend and of course has grown out of parties

I did hear from a colleague of dh who teaches at a jd, some parents think it's something you can dip in and out of, these are the ones that usually leave before the end of the first term.

The goosebumps is also true, my dd came out and panel member said when dd sang she cried. I get nervous when people say things like this and always apply with something stupid, I wish I didn't but have no other thoughts. I said "She wasn't that bad was she" the humour was lost and I looked an idiot, again.

If anybody is close to Manchester or thinks their dc might like to audition the main open day for the school is the 6th October.

Great just to attend if local, and if child is serious worth the travel.

parents see it as a cheap way to get into a good private school using the MDS
We are paying a lot more than we would have paid for the private school DS got an offer from... So it's def not always the case....

folk, we definitely didn't have much communication with both jds DS auditioned. It was pretty much like NCO for us.

Music school was the same. We were told parents would be invited to some of the interviews, but it was more like explaining how the school works etc, and sounded like they had already knew they would offer a place before we got to know them much (we were too confused by the situation we were in at the time, but they were always talking as if DS was starting from September from the first contact).

So I am not very sure how important for them to see what kind of family/background the DCs have. DS's answers in the interviews were not sophisticated at all neither. He even did say some silly things (the reason for applying for jd was because he liked composing so they had to double check if DS knew he was auditioning for a violin place, and so on), so I don't really think there were 'right answers'.

However, presumably, they could spot DS was the driving force not parents and his love of music was genuine in the audition/interview. Looking back now, I feel they let DS chat (by asking some random questions) and saw those things including his personality/suitability/teachable or not. They could also see he was from reasonably supportive family by the way he spoke, I guess. I do heard they are 'an expert' to spot there pretty instantly.

Also, a child I know has an oh-so unsupportive parent (one of the parents is supportive) and this unsuppotive one caused so much pain prior to starting the specialist music school, trying absolutely everything to prevent the child from attending the school. The supportive one won in the end and the child is now at the school. The school knew everything because they patiently waited for the unsupportive one to agree (and sign the form) for months. So, it's quite clear you don't need to have supportive, well behaved, tick all the boxes parents to get an offer....

Patricks - I know not always the case but for people earning say 30-60k which is probably most people private secondary school is impossible but specialist school via MDS is possible (and if the low end of that almost free.) You are clearly way above average :)

The life of Jazz musician takes them away a lot, I'm saying this because it's good for the Jazz parents to hear, and I'm not married to a classical player .
If you have children unless you want to use a nanny there really needs to be a sahp.
Add to this the very low income that needs to be subsidised if you want to pay for your roof over your head and food for your family.
For us it was a cheap way of getting into the school she wanted to attend. hardly any children would be there if not for the MDS.
I think parents who do think it's a cheap way of getting into private would be surprised. The academic education is no better than a good state school. It isn't that important to many of them, so far as they have to worry. That must be a huge bonus when it comes to assessments and exams.