August Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Welcome to the new music thread for August - a place to discuss anything you like to do with learning instruments/ singing. We have child and adult learners on here, and all standards from toddlers experimenting with music to the very advanced.

It's coming up to 7 years since I started the first thread, and I have been flagging a bit lately due to a long illness. When I started the first one, my daughter Goo had just turned 6 and was about to take her Grade 1 recorder exam! She is now 12 (13 in two months), has done her Grade 8 Flute (result currently under appeal), is thinking about Grade 8 Recorder next year (having not played since Year 6) and is learning the piano. Piano hasn't gone well this term. Her teacher has been going on lots of last minute holidays and also has another job now, so Goo has only had two piano lessons since Easter. Teacher has now decided to retire from teaching, so we need to find a new one. Goo has never, ever performed on the piano and hasn't taken any exams either. She has been learning since she was 10, and was recently learning pieces by Bach and Chopin, although I have no idea what she is practising at the moment.

I also have Rara (10) who plays the cello, clarinet and recorder at a good Grade 4 level. It doesn't come naturally to her at all, but she's more inclined to work at things... when it suits her. She plays the clarinet most, but swears she's in love with the cello. Her bass clef reading definitely seems stronger. We have started and stopped theory three times. I think she is more than capable of doing it, but she's distractible, longwinded and feels the need to reinvent the wheel. I have decided to wait until she's ready to do the whole lot in one go... hopefully when she is a bit more mature and developmentally ready. Goo had it done and dusted at the same age and I find it hard not to worry about Rara at times, but in many ways she's just as able... but on her own timeline.

I usually have 80-90 woodwind pupils on my books - mostly recorder these days, although I'm a clarinettist really. I currently have a clutch of little clarinets, a couple of flutes and a good saxophone pupil, so plenty of variety.

Hope everyone is having a good summer and that those DCs who are at NCO/other music courses are enjoying.

I have been cracking the whip a bit on practice since we have got back from holiday although the DCs have also been on a watersports week so they were fitting in practice and theory before and after that each day.

They are off to my parents tomorrow, they are taking theory papers with them and DD is taking the recorders. I have also recently bought a digital piano to keep at my parents so they now have no excuse not to practise piano while they are there (evil mum).

My latest faff is what to do about booking DD's recorder exam(s). I am looking at December Trinity dates. This time, DD will be sitting exams on the treble and descant but different grades. We will be going with the same accompanist for both so I am trying to cut down on the amount of time we will be asking of her - especially as this will be a weekend date in December. That means definitely booking for the same day for both exams. I know you can choose the date with Trinity but I can't remember from last time if it is possible to choose the timeslot and if it is possible whether it is best to go for two consecutive slots or leave 1 or 2 in between to allow for a warm-up... any recorder players/teachers have any advice please?

String when DD was at Rossall with Main last year their tutor said if he could have fitted the whole section in his car he would have taken them out to eat, as they should not be expected to work as hard as they were working on that food!! Sorry to hear it has not improved.

Re girl-boy differences, girl-boy stereotypes tend to push girls into having more focus on fine motor skills and boys into having more focus on gross motor. I imagine this might lead to boys being ready (or perceived as being ready) to start musical instruments later on average. The ones in DD's class learning instruments going into y2 are exactly the three children with neat small cursive writing.

There are also cultural effects. Some places music isn't seen as cool for boys. One teacher friend deliberately got one of his "tougher" boy pupils to demo in assembly and found that more boys then signed up for the next year.

Pottering back into practising here after holiday. I've also got them both working gently through grade 1 theory as a holiday project. Interesting comparison. DD is neater and more accurate but slower, and more likely to ask for help. DS whizzes it off but makes lots of mistakes. If nothing else at least DS won't forget how to hold a pencil over the holidays - not a keen writer!

On holiday - with guitars! It's proved useful as siblings sniping at each other were diverted from evil to quite good when I suggested they tried to compose something together. Not sure exactly what they were up to after that but it wasn't squabbling!
DS2 had a good piano lesson before we headed off and I think he'll take his G5 piano next term, then a big push on theory before G6 cello exam. I really want to get him back in a good practice routine but it's hard with a 13 year old who wants to sleep until lunchtime and then hide in his room till dinner! And he's at least 6 inches taller than me!!

no experience with 2 recorder exams on the same day. However have 2 dc who have had 2 music exams on the same day and the both preferred a bit of a gap.

Melting leave a gap of one candidate in between.

In Trinity exams, they can play both recorders, and have to from Grade 6. So I make all mine do so from Grade 3. If you get the treble caught up quickly, you can kill two birds with one stone next time round, and save money.

Thank you waffle - that's what I will go with, a gap of one candidate in between.

She will be sitting for Grade 3 on the treble but haven't quite decided yet which grade for descant. Am going to see how she goes over the next month or so. She seems to prefer the treble so she may well have caught up with the descant by the next time.

Melting, I was just going to say the same thing as double, you can play both in the same exam, saves money! My dd did grade one on both in same exam you choose which one you do the sight reading on. If she is keen, we will do another one like that, happy for her to keep up her recorder alongside the oboe.

DS is not a neat writer. Achieving good presentation was his main target at primary school. He is quick and confident and boldly makes lots of careless mistakes... Yet, he is great at any sport he does and plays piano and violin well for his age so I assume his fine motor skills mustn't be so bad. But he is definitely not a stereotype of young violinist/pianist... He has a mad scientist appearance too when his hair get long....

Wow, my kids would love to visit howarths! Bet it is fun.

Dc is at a boys' school so thankfully there isn't a cool factor / girls' area issue. I can imagine that it could be a problem

Ds goes to a mixed school but music is very much accepted - I think many dream of following in the footsteps of a very famous ex pupil so it definitely isn't an issue . I think it showed them all that it is possible to do something different with hard work talent ( and a lot of luck !!)
Ds kind of presented himself as a musician when he joined in year 7 and so amongst his peers I think it's just accepted that that's what he does just like others cycle or swim or play football . He seems to have a fairly high achieving group of friends with an eclectic mix of interests and so that definitely helps !! Plus Ds is also very sporty and so is always keen to join in with lunchtime football

Howarths is VERY dangerous. A bit like Olivander's - last time we went in DD was adamant that one of the bassoons had chosen her!

hapsburg 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Howarth's is not far from All Flutes Plus and RAM, so you can imagine the trouble I got into as a post graduate flautist at said college! ( I absolutely haven't got spare headjoints and footjoints tucked away in my knicker drawer from those days...no, not at all ...😉)

floot I hope you manage to resolve the neighbour issue - we are in a terraced house but luckily are best friends with both our neighbours so they don’t object to noise (and with six DC that’d have to be a deal breaker!!). We have however put a thick sheet of styrofoam between the wall and the piano (even though it’s not a partition wall) because it seems to make the sound generally much more gentle and quiet, which means it can be played after the younger ones or next door neighbours go to bed. Maybe give that a go and let next door know you’re doing that so they can’t argue that you’re not attempting to appease?

Really glad everyone’s enjoyed NCO outings! They sound amazing. This thread sometimes makes me wish DDs had more time for music. We’ve had quite a lot of writing a musical (a huge ongoing project with their friend) and a little bit of playing with the new found accordion this week but other than that it’s been mostly meeting friends, watching films and reading. From tomorrow they’re off to Portugal for a surfing holiday with our NDNs. It does include the musical writing friend but that’s as close to music as they’ll get It’ll make for a quiet house again. DD3 has been practising her violin a little but just does 5 minute bursts - I feel she’s too little to focus for much longer and want her to keep her enthusiasm.

And at our mixed (mostly) comprehensive music, sport and drama are all cool among their own crowds I believe. Any extra curriculars are very encouraged and celebrated which I think squashed any potential issue.

Yes I think to a large extent secondary school is a bigger pond and there will be enough people doing anything to find their own crowd. And by that time for our young starters their identity as a musician is already well established. I'd still be interested to know the relative levels of boys and girls taking up a first instrument at secondary age, suspect that may still be skewed in some schools. Role models matter a lot here.

For things like NCO though starting early is bound to be a question. What hobbies do they pester about or their parents say "do you fancy trying" when they're 6 or 7 or even younger. Which is where the over-gendered culture has an effect. If your child seems energetic and outdoorsy, you don't automatically think "flute lessons", but stereotypes are nudging boys to be more outdoorsy and girls to be more sitting concentrating. Obviously this doesn't apply on an individual level, but on average across the population.

Then again at a statistical level, boys genuinely are slightly less mature in terms of fine motor. Which does have some geared effects because if you try 3 or 4 hobbies you're more likely to stick with and persevere with the one you're better at.

Hopefully the cultural effects are going down though seems worse that when I was at school at the moment? I wonder what effect the reduction in free music service lessons also has an effect. We were tested for aptitude and there were free lessons for those who did well.

The apptitude tests are interesting though I, as I didn't pass at primary to do piano but have arguably done loads more with my music through enthusiasm and desire to learn ( can play many instruments badly!,) than the ones who 'pased', most of whom have no interest in playing anything now!

On another note, I'm just off to the Fringe festival to hear the Edinburgh Renaissance Band. Slightly niche , so going on my own, can't wait!

I too would be wary of/reluctant to encourage aptitude tests for something like music - I think DD2 would show a lot of aptitude (perfect pitch, great sense of rhythm etc) for music but in reality she’s nothing too special musically because she simply isn’t that dedicated and doesn’t really have the drive to excel - she just wants to play about on lots of instruments for fun. Whereas I’m sure there are many who might not do as well on an “aptitude” test but would make much better use of extra music lessons and musical opportunities, and who will go a lot further in the world of music!

Ds didn't start early - whole class lessons in year 4 . And they didn't test for music aptitude everyone had a go for a year and then those who's liked it chose to carry on . I think Ds is the only one who still plays now
I am worried about the lack of free lessons in schools though. Dd's school have now pulled out of the county music service lessons but without them many will never get an opportunity to play an instrument.
I have pointed this out to her school but I also understand the considerable financial pressures they are under .

I think DS's whole class lessons would rather have put them off than encouraged anyone to learn an instrument trumpetboysmum! The racket of 30 beginner clarinets at once..and they didn't get to bring instrument home to realise it can sound better 1 at a time. What instrument did yours do? Obviously there will be exceptions but I'd imagine NCO must be skewed towards earlier starters, particularly at the younger ages?

Yes I don't know the merits of aptitude testing per se but it did push some kids into trying music lessons when it simply wouldn't have occurred to them or their families otherwise, which I thought might tend to work against stereotyped views of who should do well? And also just getting more kids started so there's a broader base to find the able ones.

Cornet ( some had trumpets ) dd's class had the same . I agree it didn't sound great !! Though they did get to bring them home which is how we discovered that Ds could really play

On the subject of aptitude tests, my DD studied piano at a French conservatoire where entry for the younger students used to be via aptitude testing. They dropped this last year as it wasn't a reliable way of spotting potential. They now take the youngest students on a first come first served basis, which effectively selects on the basis of parental keenness (which is probably quite well correlated with musical achievement as it happens).