Acting - where to start?

[WhoKnowsWhereTheW1neGoes]

DD(12) has been part of a local musical theatre group for several years. She has now decided she would like to take things a bit more seriously and start looking for other roles. Tonight she has googled and found backstage.com, and is really keen to sign up. This is all new to me and although I would like to support her in this, I have no real idea what I'm doing. Any words of wisdom? I will speak to her musical theatre group leader as well.

If she wants to go into musical theatre then she should start auditioning for more local productions to get experience before building up. My DD had been in UK tours and on the West End and off West End and what was best for her was getting a very good reliable agent (who can then book and find auditions), and in order to get represented by her agency she had to send in evidence of her existing work and a “CV” of sorts. She’d filled that up with lots of local dance productions and choir performances and was able to talk about all the classes she took to prove her commitment, as well as things like dance/gymnastics/music grades and awards. Get her auditioning for local main house amateur dramatic performances as a start - then she’ll be able to gauge how committed she is and like I said it’ll beef up her “CV”.

It depends on whether your DD would like to try for amateur or professional roles.

Criteria for professional productions tend to be quite strict:

• upper age limit for auditionees is typically 13
• upper height limit is usually 4'10" (occasionally 5')
• children must show no physical signs of puberty (i.e. girls flat-chested, boys with unbroken voices)
• children must live within a certain distance of the theatre or (for touring productions) the rehearsal venue - usually a maximum of an hour's travel each way.

Children don't need an agent to apply for lots of the professional MT shows, including West End. In fact if she only wants to audition for MT (and not commercials/TV/film), she's better off without an agent.

Some long-running shows advertise details of children's auditions on their websites. The casting directors who do a lot of children's MT casting (Jessica Ronane, Jo Hawes, Verity Naughton, Debbie O'Brien) all have websites or social media pages where they advertise forthcoming auditions, or have mailing lists you can sign up to. Most shows are London-based, and even the ones that aren't often rehearse in London.

There is no need to have amateur experience prior to applying to audition for WE shows. DS is about to start his 5th professional production (3 of which have been in the WE) and we have known plenty of children cast straight into WE shows with no previous experience.

If it is amateur roles she is after, or she doesn't fit height or distance criteria for professional opportunities, there are high-quality amateur productions available for children. National Youth Musical Theatre and British Theatre Academy would be two to check out.

The key thing for MT is getting good triple-threat training. It sounds like your DD is having good regular local training; maybe consider supplementing this with some holiday MT workshops?

You can sign up to be notified for auditions on Jessica Ronane's website. They were auditioning for the Matilda tour recently and School of Rock do so a few times a year. Jo Hawes runs workshops for audition techniques and general acting and musical theatre skills which you can book through her website. Agree with the above re. following the criteria for each part. Some are recruited well in advance so they cannot afford for a child to go through several months' rehearsal and grow too tall.

Sylvia Young et al seem to get many pupils into the big productions and iirc they and other London based schools do weekend sessions for kids as do the likes of Guildford School of Acting. It might be worth checking out what any local drama or theatre schools offer. Realistically you need to live within M25 to do West End productions unless you land a lead part like Matilda when you may be able to board.

Notapushymum is the chat forum of other young performers' parents who can give useful tips and there may be ads for upcoming auditions.

TheatreTaxi three West End shows! Wow. We were more than done after DD doing just a year in one. Exhausting. Maybe it was the show she was in but most of her young cast mates did have a lot of local/regional/even precious WE theatre under their belt - she was by far the least experienced and not at all a triple threat! An average singer and never been to a drama class in her life. Not sure if the same can be said about the UK Tours she’s done. Perhaps our children have performed together

Thank you all. We live a good 40 mins or so outside the M25 so anything London based is out. We are not particularly close to any large regional theatres either (45 mins in various directions to the sort that attract off West End tours). The appearance thing is a problem too, she's tall and broad-shouldered. So probably amateur is the way to go. Unfortunately not many groups round here, but I have found a workshop this summer at a different school to her normal one. I think I need to sign up for some of these social media / email alerts and see whats out there in our wider area, maybe panto. I think she's going to struggle with musical theatre TBH as she's not strong in dance and wants to quit those classes altogether (they are separate from her MT group). She would like to try for bit parts in film/TV too. A lot to think about!

Your daughter is at a funny age and height right now. Child licensing is a pain (well actually it’s really good from a child protection point of view), but once a child is 16 then they no longer need a licence or chaperone. This means that most teen parts go to 16 year olds who look young. Bit of a lifesaver when it comes to GCSE time but not that great when trying to break into the industry as a tall 12 year old.

Really do not underestimate the value of doing amateur stuff. There are heaps of opportunities for girls like your daughter. I work with kids in the performing arts and for the select few who make it it’s amazing. For those who don’t then rejection comes part and parcel of daily life and you need to be a taxi driver.

My kids love MT but lack the dance talent. They attend the Pauline Quirke Academy and it’s so good for them. In particular they love the film and TV classes - not only do they learn to act to camera but also scriptwriting, direction, sound etc. There is also an agency attached (no obligation to join, you pay only for photos), through which my one daughter has got some big jobs and the other some extra work on commercials. I do think like all these nationwide companies though that some are better than others. Ours is flipping amazing but I am fairly sure others aren’t.

Acting professionally is a huge commitment for the whole family. It’s only slightly less demanding for amateur work. The most important thing is to be supportive but grounded. My eldest DD got down to the last two for a major Hollywood movie coming out shortly. She didn’t get it. Even after several weeks she only stood a 50% chance. In the end the director thought the hair colour of the other girl matched better with that of the people playing her parents. It’s not always the most talented child who gets the part but the one who looks the part.

I work in TV, film, commercials and theatre - please feel free to PM with any specific questions. The website notapushymum also has lots of info.

Thanks Zodlebud. The commitment of family time is something of an issue, we do a huge amount of extra-curricular / hobby stuff between us and spend considerable amounts of time both taxiing and doing the necessary paperwork/kit/equipment etc for the DCs already (DD is also a competitive swimmer although only at entry level at the moment). I feel something will have to give, but not sure what at the moment! The Pauline Quirke Academy sounds great, I see there is one about half an hour away from us. We have a break from a lot of it over the summer, I am going to make it my mission to have a look into a lot of the suggestions on this thread and see where we go from here.

Yes what taxi said. Ds2 doesn’t have an agent, but has been in west end tours, a feature film (with a proper part), voiceovers and shorts.

We don’t have an agent because we’re 4 hours from London (or anywhere really) & he has a severely disabled brother so I’ve always wanted to be able to choose when we commit to things. He does have a Mandy kids profile and occasionally gets invited to audition for reasonably big parts then.

He wants to go to drama school and tbh the youth company attached to our regional theatre is some of the best preparation. One of the west end tours was really worth doing in terms of future plans because the Company were so lovely and the cast & creatives are still hugely encouraging (years later, with his broken voice and bum fluff moustache ), but getting into drama school is a whole different ballgame than getting cast in a show. It has been good for him to see the reality though (eg cast members who did the tour, then west end run, then changed career). He doesn’t have a romantic idea of the job.

If she wants to do MT I would advise her to work hard on dance. Ds2 is no dancer (although he did have some dance in some of his west end stuff) but he took up ballet as a teen and does quite a bit of dance now because it helps with acting.

We've had the conversation about dance so many times, it is definitely an issue. The timing of the classes has been a big problem, last year they clashed with swimming, this year they were immediately after an exhausting afternoon of sport at school every week and she was shattered so wanted to give up again. However she says she would go back if the timings were better as she does quite like it (very friendly supportive dance school) and that people do catch up quite quickly when they join the classes.

The people I know who have successfully auditioned for good MT colleges (eg, Laines) do hours of dance each week. You just can’t so enough of it for MT. Ds2 (who wants to do acting, not MT) does at least 5 hours a week, for a while he was doing 12-15, which was slightly ridiculous, but it made him fit! It’s good to do a range of different styles and I do think ballet is a bit of a must - it builds such strength.

If she wants to act rather than dance I’d still recommend doing some dance & ballet.

If she just wants to have fun then obviously she doesn’t need the dance. Ds2 used to be scared of dance. He started with contemporary & that gave him the confidence to do all sorts. Now he does pretty much everything except tap which he did for a while, but then dropped.

Someone from her dance school got into Laine last year and is an extraordinarily good dancer, I am going to be looking out for them in future. It's definitely food for thought.

I think having an agent worked for us because we would never have had any clue about opportunities otherwise (and never really thought DD was capable of professional level theatre)! I would agree to keeping up the dance as much as possible, especially if MT is what she wants to do more of - DD doesn’t actually do any drama or singing, just 20+ hours of dance a week because she’s absolutely bonkers and most of the people we’ve known who go into musical theatre programmes tend to be from a more dance based background and do very little singing/drama, especially because smaller roles in big productions tend to be primarily dance roles so it’s easier to use as a stepping stone. DD’s first UK Tour was in a part that spoke/sung very little but danced an awful lot. It also really helps with physical theatre and acting as well I think. It’s frustrating that they clash - do you have any few day summer schools nearby she could maybe look at getting involved with during the holiday?

My very talented cousin spent her entire life up to the age of 25 acting, dancing and singing. Her parents remortgaged to send her to a prestigious MT school. She never got so much as a sniff of a professional role because of her height (5ft 8ins). Apparently they like girls to be roughly the same height so nobody stands out or is taller than the leading man. After several years of waitressing and auditioning she gave up and became an accountant. Something to consider if your DD is tall!

Well, she's not that tall (yet!) and she has short parents so might get away with it. I am really frustrated with the lack of enthusiasm for dance, she's not at a high enough level for her school's summer school and has declined to go to the occasional classes her teacher will be running. I'm going to start looking at other dance schools I think, maybe a change of scene is what's needed.

If she isn’t keen on dance, then just steer her gently over the next few years that MT isn’t going to be her day job. Ds2 loves MT, he’s had major kid roles in MT in WE tours but he knows that his dance isn’t good enough for adult MT ensemble roles (bizarrely it’s probably fine for lead roles, although they often go to soap stars anyway - the hugely talented leads have often come through TV shows or pop roles - not many make it out of an ensemble into a lead). MT tends to be a short career as well unless you move into choreography or teaching.

I think the best thing is to just follow passions. Ds2 started dancing because although he knew it was useful he found friends to dance with. He enjoys dance now because his classes are with two mates and they spend most of their time doing stuff together. He’s never going to be a dancer, but he enjoys the dance he does.

Also realism - he wants to go to drama school. He knows how incredibly competitive it is. He knows even if he goes somewhere like RADA the chances of making a career out of acting is small. So he carries on doing it, but following what he enjoys, rather than doing things because he ‘should’. - when the chances of it leading to an acting salary he can live on is pretty small.

There’s value in doing things you enjoy. I’m not sure there’s value in doing things when young just because you think you might want a certain career. I think it needs to be the other way round. So if you love dance & are fab at it, then you have certain options open to you. If you don’t like dance & can’t find a way to enjoy it, then that alters your future options, but that’s not a bad thing - just tells you that something you thought might be for you isn’t. A bit like deciding you want to be a dentist as a young kid, but then finding out that you need good fine motor skillls and you don’t have those, so you need to rethink.

I get very mixed messages from her about dance TBH. She says she likes it one day then not the next. I do think part of the problem is that there's no one she really knows in her current dance class (the ones she was friends with have quit). She hasn't ruled out picking it up again in September but wants to wait and see the timetabling in conjunction with her new school timetable. I think this year was particularly tough with starting secondary school. I am going to see what other classes are available locally too but ultimately its her choice.

The performing arts are such a difficult career choice (I have taken to randomly suggesting other choices to Ds2 in conversation ‘you’re really interested in vouce, what about speech therapy?’ or saying ‘how about producing? They’re the ones with the money?’ that I think they’re better off just doing what they enjoy (once you’ve been thorough the ‘should we try for Sylvia Young/Italia Conti etc dilemma) & postponing decisions until later teens.

Definitely worth trying a few dance classes. Ds2 did a bunch of different ones before settling into his current choices (which he’ll almost certainy stick with until he’s 18, with maybe additional workshops etc if he wants them).

By 12 though I would be expecting to see a real passion for dance if she genuinely wants to do MT although we are all talking about MT as a professional career.

You most certainly need to be a strong triple threat to make it in MT as an adult (and as a child). You can however just love singing or acting.

Both my kids move well but are not dancers. They know they can’t be in Matilda or Billy Elliot as a result. They have been able to perform in the West End (for one night only) with the PQA. To them it felt just as special as being in a proper WE show.

They both prefer acting tbh, in particular for film. It’s a very different skill to acting on the stage. They can also watch themselves afterwards (terribly vain!!!).

I don’t think forcing dance is the right thing. She needs to try different things and work out if it really is MT that floats her boat. If it is then she will naturally refocus on dance by herself.

There will be a huge conflict with swimming though - she may need to choose between the two.

She isn't particularly fixed on MT, she's in an MT group because that's what is available in our town (she joined age about 6 because I thought she might like it and she really does). There's no real dance element in her group's productions but she knows what's involved in professional MT as we go to shows fairly regularly. I think acting is the part she likes best. Whether stage/TV/film we're not really sure yet but I think we definitely need to broaden her experience.

If it's just acting, that makes your life a lot easier, OP, because unlike dancing or even singing, it doesn't require high quality early training in the same way and maturity counts for a lot more.

Dd is currently at drama school and knows a lot of older students/ex-students from drama schools all over the country. As far as she can tell, there doesn't appear to be any correlation between having worked as a child performer and getting work as an adult, or even really between having trained somewhere like Sylvia Conti as a child and getting work as an adult.

So for a career in acting, there is no reason the local am-dram or youth theatre, followed by drama school as a young adult, shouldn't meet your dd's needs perfectly well.

What she needs to do now is get as much and as varied an experience as possible, be part of as much as she can, and read as many plays as she can. Find out where her interests lie but be prepared to try a bit of everything.

Taking a few dance classes is almost certainly going to be good for her in any case (she won't be able to learn acting without working on movement), but if she hasn't shown a passion for it yet, then I agree with pp that it's almost certainly not what she will be doing.

When she is older, the big drama schools run very good weekend or summer courses that can help with individual aspects, such as audition technique.

Or she might decide that actually, this is just something she wants to do for fun- and that is also a valid choice. Am-dram will still be there.

@corythatwas - congratulations to your DD on being accepted for drama school, we’re just starting this process and are beginning to understand how hard this is.
My DD will be applying for drama schools in the Autumn, if I pm you, would you be willing to pass on some of lessons your DD learned during the application progress?

Yes, of course you can, error. Don't want to give too much away on a public forum, but she is going a slightly unusual way, having lost a lot of her teen years to physical disability and MH issues. One thing that has taught her is that getting used to rejection is part of the journey- but also that there are all sorts of things you can do to help yourself. Do pm me.

Thank you, your DD sounds inspirational. I’ve PMd you